This is a brilliant post that I have seen in awhile on this website.
However I also have to ask the question WHY?...why do it? especially for masters running,why?
Not it's not. It's obsessive. Only elites with really big goals, AND have already had experience in the past, should even think of taking on a program like that. For a hobbyjogger, 80-90 miles max.
I train around 11 to 18 hours per week for triathlon. There are several key factors to making this successful.
1. Be a morning person. I do 1 to 3 hours of training in the morning before anyone else is even awake.
2. Have an indoor training setup. I have a home gym with my bike trainer and treadmill and have both connected to Zwift. I can squeeze in a quick session very easily in the morning and evening without anyone noticing I am gone.
3. Be flexible. You need to be capable of changing or shortening workouts depending on life circumstances.
4. Financial stability/High paying job. It’s a lot easier to justify a selfish hobby when you are making a lot of bank. plus, having a Nanny is very helpful. If you are making 60k, you should probably be hustling instead of training….
5. Don’t forget about your family. If I am too tired to have fun with my kids and wife, I am probably training too hard…
I have been experimenting with ultra mileage while being 40+ for some time.
I thought that there might be other people out there who want to try, but are a bit afraid to.
This guide is meant to help them.
Distances are in km.
1. Prerequisites (parenthesis added for relative importance).
You need to be smart (7/10)
You need good time management (7/10)
You need to have a decent level (7.5/10) else you are going to be too slow to log in the miles
You need to be very healthy, thin and having a reasonable diet. (8/10)
You cannot have a heavy, stressful, time consuming-soul job (8.5/10)
You need to be very good at recovery (9/10)
You need to be somewhat injury immune (9.5/10)
You need to be commited (10/10).
2. General guidelines
You have a wife and kids, so your schedule is not going to be the one you have typically seen online or on this forum. It is going to be very fluid time wise and you should always prioritize your job and family time. You best bet is to aim for around 25 to 35km per day, every day, with low days at 20 and heavy at 45, sometimes 55. You need to be smart on how to squeeze a run at the right time.
a. Clothing
What I do: I have two bags: one for running clothes, one for job clothes (suit). These two bags need to fit in a larger bag. I buy the right suit clothes and then I learned to fold them in a bag and unfold them without a mark. I also carry my shoes, bathing stuff and my laptop in my bag.
Learn to get dressed and undressed very quickly if you need to.
This way, I can run to and from work if I don't work from home.
b. When to run
What I do: I run every morning before my kids are awake and log as many miles as I can during that time while always following a simple rule: always go VERY easy in the morning, so that going outside does not become a chore. I start very slow and finish slow. I keep it an enjoyable ru and finish very fresh and relaxed.
If you work from home, you may be able to log a lot of miles here and there, especially at noon (probably the best time for track or tempos).
In the evenings, when kids are sleeping, if my wife wants some time alone to relax from her day and eat with a friend, etc., I can log a few more miles. Or not.
Week ends: very fluid as it depend on the family schedule, but if you can and want, you can log a Long Run or even a very Long Run by waking up at 4 am or going to sleep later.
You might be able to log a few more if you kids bike, skate, play soccer, ... while you watch over them while running around them.
Overall you should target 3-5 runs/day during the week and 1 or 2 in the week end. For each run, don't target a distance but rather a maximum time allocation.
You need roughly 3h per day and it can be as simple that say 1h10 in the early morning, 45 min at noon and 2x30 min going to and from work. Not many miles each time, but it adds up pretty fast when you multiply by 4 or 5 each day. You WIN when all this becomes a habit for a very important reason: when it is a habit, you do preparatory things automatically, i.e. without thinking, and this way you start gaining a lot of times before and after your runs. You also go out early in the morning because this is what you do.
c. Injury prevention
If you are injury prone, it s going to be way harder, granted, but by multiplying the easy runs, you increase you recovery time and therefore injury prevention.
You should limit your harder efforts to a couple per week and focus on being really easy most of the time.
As you train several times per day, you don't really need a long run, even though doing 30km at once should feel -even at the end- very easy after some time. In a way, 30km stops being a long run in your mind, it is just that this time you had more time and did 30, and with more time you would have done 40 or 50.
Of course, you should progressively up your training (I suppose that you would try doing this kind of mileage only with years of training and running habits, else it is way too soon). When you reach ca. 200km/week, keep it for like 2 weeks and then go down to 120/150 for the next one to ensure that the body digest the added load, then again 2 weeks and 1 week off, and then 3 weeks at 200, etc.
I always keep in mind a very important rule: I should never end a run being weary or feeling fatigued. This way I am always ready for the next one and it does not become a burden but rather a way of life. Injury comes from fatigue, intensity, or both most of the time.
d. Diet
Eat a lot, especially salt (without being crazy of course). Losing salt is a major factor that will make you feel sleepy and fatigued. Above 100miles/week, eating itself can become an issue. Above 200km, it definitely becomes one. If you under-eat, you will feel the fatigue creeping in and you will lose your motivation and running will again will feel impossible. Above 200km, I remarked that I eat virtually all the time and still lose a bit of weight compared to 100m/w. Food becomes a budget.
e. Shoes
Focus on shoes that are hyper comfy and a bit too large. Good, tight and light shoes for races, but for the rest, remain hyper relaxed in your shoes, running should feel like going out for a (generally short) walk to enjoy the view and looking at the world going without worrying about the cardio or pace.
Change socks :-).
f. Sleep
Ideally, learn to do the fast 20-30 min sleep during the day. It helps.
With all due respect, its just not that hard to get miles in. 3 runs a day sounds excessive and a real chore. I’m 55, no kids at home, but it would not matter if I did. Just finished 80+ mile week and all miles completed before 630/7am. Summertime, will be done by 6a, 7 days a week, 1 run per day. Plenty of time to run my business, quality time with the wife and free time for me. No TV, no wasting time on mindless things….well, except LetsRun…
For those that may have missed this thread (see below). Edna Kiplagat, at age 43, signs with PUMA! She’s a mother and manages to stay on top. Further research shows JUST how busy she is. It’s a cool thread:
I entered my 40s as a distance runner running 60-70 asnd sometimes up to 100 mpw while working construction, and also being a top performer in a completely unrelated sport. I won a few lower level races (i.e. 34/1:18 times), but it was all too much, especially during base-building phase. Summer of year 41 I ran an 800 in a track meet and ran a time few other masters locally were running (2:09). I deftly and smartly made the switch and became a 800/1500 runner, clocking in 30-50 miles/week and freeing up a lot of time and energy. Upshot is I picked up some nice national hardware, ran lifetime PRs 1500 and below, and coached some other runners to national titles. I also find that 800 training is by far the most fun and healthy long-term, in conjunction with other balancing sports, well into my 60s. Gone are the daily doubles and triples and 18-20-mile long runs, but in are variety sessions emphasizing speed and stamina. I am likely one of the most overall fit multi-sporters in the country/world for my age, and almost never sick or injured, and have fantastic health markers.
What could you run for 10k and half now?
My tempos now are 7:30s for 3-4 miles on a good day. A few years ago I did more mileage/heart rate slow training and could have extended that to 13.1 in a race, but not at the moment. Currently training for sub-70 400 and 2:40s 800 with lots of strength and mobility training for my main sport. Mostly happy just to be injury-free with lots of variety in my training and each day pretty high in the "play" factor with sprints, drills, intervals and fartleks.
I’m about to turn 30 and just had my first child. I am still training but don’t imagine getting past 70 MPW or so because I want to be there for my family and have energy to do that! During the work week I get my miles in early in the morning (usually after feeding the baby) so I can be present and helpful in the evening. Then On weekends I can justify some 90 min to 2 hour runs or so. To be blunt, past a certain point it seems like high mileage for a parent is just an excuse to get out of the house and skirt your parenting responsibilities.
Hi I’m the wife. Yes I’ll take the kids and do all the real work. Please get up early and would especially support you if you did extra long runs on Sat and Sunday. I can handle it all. Maybe you can work part time so you can run 3x a day. Can’t wait to tell all my friends what a warrior you are! Who needs a nice home? I like renting. Keep at it!
First of all, the OP described it very well, no doubt helpful for anyone who wants to do it that way from 40+. But the bottom line is that I agree with the quoted post. I know two families at once where the fathers make their endurance sports the center of not only their lives, but compulsively for their wives and children. Both women openly say how much this pisses them off. During the long preparation phases with the crazy long runs or - even worse - six or more hours of cycling for Ironman training, the fathers are so tired that they always have to sleep afterwards. Helping in the garden or around the house? No, all that has to be adapted to their training. A nice long hike in the mountains with the kids? No, too tired, doesn't fit into the training or jeopardizes the next training session. The whole family has to be there for the competitions, the whole long day or the whole weekend.
In short, at 40+ run less and see.
I know an hobby ultrarunner who, in a single year, does: multiple 100 mile races, 1-2 multiday 200+ milers, and several 50k-50milers sprinkled in. Many involve travel, some overseas. Says he does it to "inspire" his 4 young kids, the youngest of which is <1 year old. I'm sure his 3 year-old was absolutely elated and inspired he finished 18th at the Cocodona 250.
The only family vacation they go on each year is when the whole family attends one of his races. Honestly, I think he does it to get away from his family and I know for a fact his marriage has been strained because of it. If he were honest about why he's running it'd be one thing, but saying he's "doing it for his family" is the most ridiculous thing he could say.
30mpw + 2-3 weightlifting sessions is about the sweet spot for me. If I didn't do weightlifting I could probably get the mileage up to 50-60mpw which is about as much as I'd want to do.
I think a better (but less entertaining) thread would have been "How to run every day without impacting your work, family, and parenting responsibilities." I honestly think some dudes need advice on how to be more efficient and strategic with their training. How to train smart (and hard) without it messing up your life... that would be a thread some people could actually use.
For me what works is just constant, open communication with your wife/spouse/significant other. A lot of men struggle with communication at times.
She supports my running and is totally fine with it, and may run someday. Right now, she does Irish Dancing.
I know it wasn't written for me. We are all just trying to figure out the WHY of the whole project. Just tell us "you love running for running's sake" or "you want a BQ" or you want "to break 2:40" or something. I just never figured out the why. And I read the whole post.
And now that I think about it, I have a second question, would running this much actually make you a better runner? Wouldn't known coaching techniques be better?
It is someone with an exercise addiction. Better than a drug or porn addiction, but an addiction nonetheless.
The old motto of everything in moderation is almost universally correct. Other things in this guy’s life are suffering to some extent because of his obsession/addiction.
There are a lot of instafluencers with this kind of issue (exercise addiction). But they have so many followers and are popular on social media so people buy into it. Think AOTR.
I entered my 40s as a distance runner running 60-70 asnd sometimes up to 100 mpw while working construction, and also being a top performer in a completely unrelated sport. I won a few lower level races (i.e. 34/1:18 times), but it was all too much, especially during base-building phase. Summer of year 41 I ran an 800 in a track meet and ran a time few other masters locally were running (2:09). I deftly and smartly made the switch and became a 800/1500 runner, clocking in 30-50 miles/week and freeing up a lot of time and energy. Upshot is I picked up some nice national hardware, ran lifetime PRs 1500 and below, and coached some other runners to national titles. I also find that 800 training is by far the most fun and healthy long-term, in conjunction with other balancing sports, well into my 60s. Gone are the daily doubles and triples and 18-20-mile long runs, but in are variety sessions emphasizing speed and stamina. I am likely one of the most overall fit multi-sporters in the country/world for my age, and almost never sick or injured, and have fantastic health markers.
What could you run for 10k and half now?
Guy is talented but quite obviously bragging. I think he has natural talent but respect that he was smart enough to switch race types and drop mileage.
I train around 11 to 18 hours per week for triathlon. There are several key factors to making this successful.
1. Be a morning person. I do 1 to 3 hours of training in the morning before anyone else is even awake.
2. Have an indoor training setup. I have a home gym with my bike trainer and treadmill and have both connected to Zwift. I can squeeze in a quick session very easily in the morning and evening without anyone noticing I am gone.
3. Be flexible. You need to be capable of changing or shortening workouts depending on life circumstances.
4. Financial stability/High paying job. It’s a lot easier to justify a selfish hobby when you are making a lot of bank. plus, having a Nanny is very helpful. If you are making 60k, you should probably be hustling instead of training….
5. Don’t forget about your family. If I am too tired to have fun with my kids and wife, I am probably training too hard…
60k is a solid, not great, but still solid income. And many runners do well in the Midwest on that salary! Also, a nanny? Only the super-rich have nannies.
Guy is talented but quite obviously bragging. I think he has natural talent but respect that he was smart enough to switch race types and drop mileage.
Of all the elements in my very modest age-group running successes, talent for running is probably the least, unless you count careful attention to lifestyle and especially injury avoidance. Nonetheless, after setting my state's record for 50+ 800m, my Achilles gave up and relegated me first to a survival shuffle for a decade, and once recovered, only at a much reduced performance level, despite no injury issues. Not the case for my other sport, at which I am near world-record level performance, never having had a serious injury while performing at a high level for over 30 years.
My main point is to stay steadfast in your love of running, but be willing to pivot, even radically so, in your goals and methods. I don't see many doing this in the face of inevitable life setbacks.
Guy is talented but quite obviously bragging. I think he has natural talent but respect that he was smart enough to switch race types and drop mileage.
Of all the elements in my very modest age-group running successes, talent for running is probably the least, unless you count careful attention to lifestyle and especially injury avoidance. Nonetheless, after setting my state's record for 50+ 800m, my Achilles gave up and relegated me first to a survival shuffle for a decade, and once recovered, only at a much reduced performance level, despite no injury issues. Not the case for my other sport, at which I am near world-record level performance, never having had a serious injury while performing at a high level for over 30 years.
My main point is to stay steadfast in your love of running, but be willing to pivot, even radically so, in your goals and methods. I don't see many doing this in the face of inevitable life setbacks.
I gotcha now. I respect your take on this and understand it.
Nice report. I am a father of five, 12, 10, 7 4, 2 yesrs old. Never was a high miler, I ran more in periods when my children were sleeping in a stroller and I could run during their sleeptime. Now I run on and off with the older children but mainly stay active with them through soccer, xcski, tabletennis, padel etc. It is a Great feeling to be in physically ok shape but always fresh enough to practise with them.
This post is really about time management IMO. MPW is just a variable that contributes to the amount of time you spend running. My experience as a father of 3 (5,2,0) with a pretty serious career is that I can find creative ways to cram in 12-14 hours a week without any impact to work or family. Beyond that and literally the minutes don’t exist unless I am failing somewhere else.
At that volume I barely have time to take a crap and am creatively fitting running in by run commuting from and to daycare to drop off the kids and pick them up. I am also waking up at inhumane hours for long runs. That said, it is doable if you want running to be the “third” thing that you are serious about.
I know a few dudes who also top at at 12-14 hours a week and a few of them hit 120-140 mpw. Only difference is that they are faster than me.
This post is really about time management IMO. MPW is just a variable that contributes to the amount of time you spend running. My experience as a father of 3 (5,2,0) with a pretty serious career is that I can find creative ways to cram in 12-14 hours a week without any impact to work or family. Beyond that and literally the minutes don’t exist unless I am failing somewhere else.
At that volume I barely have time to take a crap and am creatively fitting running in by run commuting from and to daycare to drop off the kids and pick them up. I am also waking up at inhumane hours for long runs. That said, it is doable if you want running to be the “third” thing that you are serious about.
I know a few dudes who also top at at 12-14 hours a week and a few of them hit 120-140 mpw. Only difference is that they are faster than me.
Not true. You can kid yourselves and justify the narcissistic obsession, but it’s not just time management.
All that training tires you out and you are less engaged in many of the other responsibilities of life.
This post is really about time management IMO. MPW is just a variable that contributes to the amount of time you spend running. My experience as a father of 3 (5,2,0) with a pretty serious career is that I can find creative ways to cram in 12-14 hours a week without any impact to work or family. Beyond that and literally the minutes don’t exist unless I am failing somewhere else.
At that volume I barely have time to take a crap and am creatively fitting running in by run commuting from and to daycare to drop off the kids and pick them up. I am also waking up at inhumane hours for long runs. That said, it is doable if you want running to be the “third” thing that you are serious about.
I know a few dudes who also top at at 12-14 hours a week and a few of them hit 120-140 mpw. Only difference is that they are faster than me.
Not true. You can kid yourselves and justify the narcissistic obsession, but it’s not just time management.
All that training tires you out and you are less engaged in many of the other responsibilities of life.
To be clear… you believe that you are able to accurately discern how every human being on the planet responds to 12-14 hours of week of running without knowing anything else about their training or lifestyle?
How do you define engagement in the workplace and parenting? Is it income and hours spent with kids or some other meaningful metric? My guess is that you haven’t really put a ton of thought into this and it’s really just a gut reaction exposing your own insecurities about parenting, your career and your running.
"but saying he's "doing it for his family" is the most ridiculous thing he could say"
When you are looking for an excuse, any one will do.
I think doing anything like running or competing "for" some cause is always false and always a hokey Hollywood contrived BS way of acting like you are sacrificing, when in reality YOU want the glory and the satisfaction that come comes from doing X.
"I'm competing in the Olympic for my dying mother."