United States Sub-4:00 Milers list no longer being updated because of supershoes

I am old too, but not "American". The irony is running 1.609,34 meters looks pretty random to me.

The number of guys running sub-3:50 hasn't really changed (for instance more guys ran sub-3:50 in 2014 than 2020, 2021 and 2022). Weird how the supershoes improve one's ability to run sub-4 but not sub-3:50.

Spike technology has developed very little in the lead up to super shoes. The only thing spikes from mid 2000s differ from spikes in the 50s or 60s is weight.

Oh wow!! OK, I'm all for super shoes/spikes, I love the technological advances in running shoes.

But, I ran high school track from 1972-1977. If you take a cheap pair of slippers, put a hard plastic plate on them with 6 x 1" spikes, you have what I ran in.

I have a pair of regular old spikes that I bought about 6 years ago and they are immeasurably faster, more comfortable, and you can even say more supportive than the Onitsuka Tigers I ran in.

Add to that today's tracks to replace the rocks, oops, cinders that I ran on. And you're opening statement couldn't possibly be further from the truth.

But they're not making you run any faster. Just because they're "more confortable" doesn't mean they're not made out of the same stuff (nylon upper, cheap foam, plastic spike plate). I get that they might be more confortable, but you're still going to get blisters in a hard 10,000m track race. I'm even hearing that super shoes cause blisters - but there's one difference super shoes have that your spikes from 6 years ago don't. They significantly delay leg fatigue which allows the athlete to work less which allows the athlete to run significantly faster. Top 100 outdoor US 10000m times averaged 28:34 for 2021 and 28:28 for 2022. The next fastest year ever for US 10000m runners (top 100) prior to the release of super shoes was 2016 at 28:52. 18 seconds slower than '21 and 24 seconds slower than '22.

How are your shoes you bought 6 years ago making you run faster other than being lighter? Sorry, but no one in the video below looks as though they are being hindered by the comfort of their spikes. If you replaced all of their shoes with spikes from the mid 2000s they might run faster, but only because of weight of the shoe and I would argue that it would be by the smallest of margins and, maybe, not at all. If you're running faster because of weight - the shoe isn't making you run faster, it's just not causing you to run slower.

Clarke set his all time 10000m PR on a cinder track in 60s era shoe technology. It wasn't for another 7 years, 6 years after the development of all-weather tracks that Viren finally broke his WR by 1 second!

lol...they have a point

There's a website in the US that celebrates the sub-4 minute mile: bringbackthemile dot com.

If that's the case, why doesn't that site take over what T&FN's done? It shouldn't be that difficult considering the majority of sub-4s are run during the indoor season, so most of the work is in January-March.

Personally, a sub-4 isn't that big a deal..now 3:55? Maybe. 3:50? Sign me up! A sub-4 is like celebrating a 17-foot pole vault.

So this respected publication has fallen for "super spike" hype, figures.

Hardly anyone understands running mechanics

US times had pretty much bottomed out the last 12 years or so. Fastest year for US men's 5000m (prior to super shoes) was 2016 at 13:42 for average top 100 US athletes. From 2012 to 2018 that average deviated no more than 3 seconds (the slowest being 13:45 in 2017). In 2021 that average droped to 13:34 and in 2022 it dropped again to 13:33. Average US times dropped 10 seconds from 2019 to 2021 (didn't count covid year). In the US men's 10,000m it fell 20 seconds. 2018 US runners weren't running any faster than they were in 2012. In fact, the last time a US runner broke 27:00 was in 2014! The same holds true for US women's 5000m and 10000m times. From 2012 to 2018 the fastest year for US women's 10,000m was 2012 at 33:18. Not counting that year, US women's 10,000m times didn't improve at all until, you guessed it, 2021 when the average dropped almost 30 seconds. 2022 times were hardly any different from 2021. From 2012 - 2018, US times for both men and women didn't really improve. So, are US runners from 2018 faster than US runners from 1996? Yes. Are runners from 2018 any faster than 2012 US runners? No.

They better update the list!!!

I never understood running 4,935 feet for an event. But thankfully no one cares about your opinion from wherever-the-hell because America is #1.

Fair enough. But Track and Field News is an American magazine that is, largely, written for American readers.

That said, we need a new system for recording sub-4:00 miles. After today (BU), I agree that no human should have to keep track of this stuff...

This didn't age very well.

At the high end, in a race as short as the mile, the shoes are worth 7 seconds, and that's compared to regular trainers. I suspect plain old spikes from the 90s and 00s would be just as fast on a track as Vaporflys. The advent of the new super spike? Maybe it's worth a few seconds. Also, even in better footwear, running a mile on a flat or banked 200m indoor track pretty much negates whatever advantage the carbon brings. I say update the lists.

So T&F News has decided to retract their decision and still update the list. Their official response:

“The original decision was simply based on our (non-scientific) belief that the stat had lost its popularity,” the site’s editor Garry Hill told me in an email. “In retrospect I now think the opposite might be true, as modern shoes/tracks/training have combined to make a shot at a sub-4:00 now a reasonable goal for a lot more people.”

nobody seems to know by how much supershoes improve a performance.in the mile,is it about 4 seconds? 5?

So right. Obviously runners of all ages had a sudden epiphany two or three years ago and figured out how to run with more efficient mechanics, in the same way, all over the world. People say it’s the shoes, but honestly, which explanation is more likely???

Hi Christian,

Your comment made my morning.

Thank you,

I can't believe anyone believes it's all just ingenuity and hard work after this weekend seeing Amos B run 3:50 after years of irrelevance and a flood of sub 4s at BU behind him. Sure, guys at the pinnacle of the sport were fast from 09-15 but some of those guys were Rashid Ramzi, Asbel Kiprop, Galen Rupp, Mo Farah, Makhloufi... and MANY more not so spotless names.

I don't know how you can see the middle of elite tripling in size while the top tier barely improves and not think the shoes are part of it. Is the NCAA where the hard work happens but the pros are getting complacent? The sport is about winning races. A 3:55 indoor miler this year is entirely irrelevant in the event and that's fine, but seeing Tinman celebrate Drew Hunter running 3:55 like he's back is obnoxious. Every indoor race set up as a strung out time trial so everyone and their mother can PR.

We need to stop pretending every coach is a genius and every athlete works harder today than 20 years ago and they can all hug and celebrate how great we all are at running after their 18th PR of the season.

Remember when the 5k and 10k sucked for a decade in the 2010s? When the Qu Yungxia's record, and Bekele's records and all the distance records looked like unbreakable relics of the EPO era? Everyone was ready to discredit those runners for having advantages. Farah's 3:28 was discredited DURING the race by Steve Cram. Suddenly women's distance records are broken pretty much monthly, sub 13 is internationally irrelevant, UW can produce 8 sub 4 guys in one race you'll, for the most part, never hear of again, and there are still fans saying - no they're just working smarter and harder now! We ran on a bed of flaming nails in the 70s, those runners in the 80s and 90s had it easy!

It is blatantly obvious something changed in the last few years with a much greater impact than any change for the last 40 years. It's not red shirts, it's not running influencers, it's not the training advice on these boards. It's the shoes. If it was anything else we might see faster sprints and 800s... But we aren't. Lazy 800 runners aren't riding the wave of awesome good vibes propelling today's athletes to be superior to the bums from 15 years ago. The sport is boring as hell right now because every pro and collegian and club runner thinks they're breaking through to the next level at these times trials and nobody is racing. Sub 4 was worth tracking because it meant you were relevant in an elite competitive setting (or very close). It simply does not anymore. It's an arbitrary time barrier without the same attachment to competitive relevance and, no, you aren't as special for doing it as the guys who did 20 years ago. I'm sorry. Go win a GD race. Remember that's what the "sport" is? Not a spreadsheet of names and times?

I've been around the sport for the past 30 years. The coaching is significantly better. More information is available at your finger tips than ever before. Videos of racing, training, athlete interviews. It's all there.

Most of the time before the coach didn't care. Especially about XC. They would send you out, or run you into the ground with intervals. Workouts were made up on the spot, the season wasn't planned. There's a reason the same teams win every year, even with different runners.

Thank you to the committed and dedicated coaches who are passionate about our sport and still learning. It's obvious the good ones know their stuff.