Cruz Culpepper (& Paige Stoner) to HOKA NAZ Elite

rojo stop being sensationalist. I asked how much Cruz's dad's role played a factor, I didn't compare their natural talent

I was wondering why Paige Stone was the footnote to Cruz Culpepper when Culpepper is just washep up wasted potential, and Stoner has actually done something with her career.

I forogt that it is more fun to talk about failures than success.

Buddy if you can't be motivated enough by the reality of life to earn a college degree for yourself (especially when the school is helping pay for it?!?) then I do not know what to tell you. Not a good sign.

PRs don’t tell the whole story though, watch them both run and it’s clear whose the most talented. Plus Cruz has two Olympian parents so definitely better pedigree. Not even trying to insult the Athlete Special, Cruz just always seemed like a natural, whereas Spencer seemed like 3:36/1:48 would be his top level ceiling.

Going with CIM champ tradition, Stoner hit a career peak last month.

For a running forum, I'm surprised how many people are butt-hurt by a surprisingly talented kid getting a contract for the professional team that his father coaches.

1. Taking a payday and going pro when you have the ability to do so isn't as naive as many are making it sound. I was on a college team a few years ago with multiple sub4 guys, including what you could describe as "mega-talents" and some of them went pro, some of them blewup and never got a contract. There shouldn't be a penalty for knowing exactly what you want to do and how to do it.

2. The NCAA is not the best system for improving middle-long distance running, despite all the arguments about needing to be a good student or whatever. I remember an interview with Jakob Ingerbritsen or maybe his dad where they were talking about the huge amount of negatives associated with middle and long distance racing in the NCAA. Too many meets prevent the type of sustainable athletic development required of middle and long distance races.

3. Nobody has made the economic argument that attending college on such a high scholarship is worth $XX,000 per year and being a professional runner is $YY,000 per year. I think in the wash, the collegiate route probably makes more financial sense but I didn't dig into contractual details.

4. All the people whining about nepotism need to stop arguing in the abstract and come back to reality. Yes, nepotism exists. Yes, there are extreme cases of nepotism that are mind-boggling. No, it isn't responsible for as much as you think. Every system is a game, the political aspect is part of the game. If you ignore that, you won't have as many chances to succeed.

Do you have a problem with Katrina Coogan running for her Dad at New Balance, she has never done anything to date and it’s been several years now if nothing.

???

At least on the women's side, being the CIM champion typically indicates that a marathoner is poised for success in the near future.

2021: Sara Vaughn signed a contract with Puma off of this performance. While you may not be impressed by her "only" shaving 30 seconds off her PR in the past year (2:26:53 to 2:26:23), she certainly hasn't gotten worse since the CIM win.

2019: The top women in 2019 haven't improved much since this race, but the field was much weaker due to the OMTs being less than three months later.

2018: Emma Bates has dropped her PR from 2:28:19 to 2:23:18, been 2nd at Chicago, and place 8th at the World Championships.

2017: Sara Hall's win at CIM announced a revival of her entire pro career. She has since dropped her PR from 2:28:10 to 2:20:32, broke the half marathon AR, and placed 5th at the World Championships.

I don't know what the remainder of Stoner's marathon career will look life, but saying that a win at CIM is typically a runner's peak just isn't backed up by reality.

I couldn’t take any of this post seriously after reading you’d rather under cook chicken. Have fun with your salmonella rojo :(

None of them have won anything else at the marathon distance and then there's the men, which further confirms.

I really believe you hit the mark with #1 and #2.

1. Most people who insist it is a failure to avoid the NCAA seem to have gone through that system themselves. If you can't get paid to run, I guess 'being part of a team' (as so many posters wax poetic about in threads about young pros) is the best you're going to do. Sour Grapes. If YOU can't get paid for it, argue that it's best NOT TO!

2. I haven't personally read anything from the Ingebritsen camp adressing the NCAA but I completely believe that a) you have and b) they say exactly what you suggest. I HAVE read the end of Chris Lear's 'Sub 4' and remember well what El G and his coach told Lear when he talked to them about Webb.

I actually quoted from the relevant passage in the book for another thread. I can't remember whom it was about but it devolved into 2 camps arguing back and forth as such:

I ran in the NCAA. It was the highlight of my life. You are a loser if you don't do the same.

And:

I respect what she's [again, don't remember who, or I could maybe find the thread] doing. I would do the same if somebody was making me an offer.

I'm not home, or I could drag out the book again and quote verbatim with page numbers. Anyway, the coach said he thought the demands of racing as much as the collegiate system requires inhibits the kind of development that his star pupil benefitted from. Everything - from the altitude they lived at any particular time of year to weight lifting programs to to what races they ran and when - was individually designed for the (still!) WR holder. I can even now remember that El G himself told Lear that the NCAA system is "not good at all" for ideal mid-D development.

You don’t understand what “career peak” means.

It isn't the 90s anymore. Very few programs do much racing. Most seasons are 1-2 time trials, conference, and nationals. If your a world class guy who wants to run 3-4 DL meets, yeah it is suboptimal. But there are few guys in that boat. Now you could argue that having to do schoolwork and run is too much.

Note a lot of countries aren't competive so if you are some 3:45 runner, you have a chance to get into nationals in your country while in the US you are off looking for some random open race...

These parents are not doing their children any favors by paving their way. How are they suppose to become successful adult's when their parents carry them?

Tom Cruz and a stoner are joining NAZ Elite?

Not to take anything away from Cruz’s talent but running 4 flat in HS isn’t what it used to be. And while I agree that there is more upside potential, nothing this kid has run justifies a pro contract at this point. All the best to him and the club, hope it works out well.

I'm curious if Cruz is even getting paid by HOKA. While it's true he has potential, his times and results are nowhere near those of his teammates. Is it possible his dad got some deal where if Cruz hits certain marks, he'd get a full contract but for now gets free stuff and a "job"?

I kind of hate myself for sh!tting on a 20-year-old, but ugh... I would be so pissed if I were an NCAA runner working my ass off for a shot and saw this. To think that fast, likable guys like Reed Brown and Edwin Kurgat are contract-free and this guy isn't is quite frustrating.

Some are not ready for college. He did not spend a lot of time competing as a result. Yet, he has already run 1:48/3:39. That makes him a good prospect. If he matures and gets his act together, he could become an even better prospect.

Honestly, I think that running in college makes people much happier (if they're good, at least) than running as a pro. Look back to the best times of your life. I wager that running on a team in college was among those times.