I think NIL has changed things a little bit. Could Adidas pay him huge money at NAU or Oregon with Nike? Absent of that factor, which has only just begun with Tuohy, no argument.
I think NIL has changed things a little bit. Could Adidas pay him huge money at NAU or Oregon with Nike? Absent of that factor, which has only just begun with Tuohy, no argument.
What I just do not get, is how even smart guys like you hold on to this romanticized notion of the world of the NCAA. We produce no World Champs relatively from 800-marathon, I said relatively. Our best 200M guys 2/3 do not or did not even run college. None of the top of the sport, which is, the rest of the world, runs in the U.S. College system. It actually looks stupid to even prop it up as some necessary experience. If you are good enough, you run NOW, for money, before you step in some cactus hole and get hurt and get nothing. You can do everything you need in this sport without College. I like/love the College Sport, but it certainly is not a necessary proving ground for anyone.That is actually also not even arguable. Centrowitz excluded, I guess? Brazier was out quick when it was clear he was great, if any other U.S guys got near the deal that Kessler did, None, NONE would run in college. And, as they say in Goodfellas....now we can eat!! LOL.
I think NIL has changed things a little bit. Could Adidas pay him huge money at NAU or Oregon with Nike? Absent of that factor, which has only just begun with Tuohy, no argument.
What I just do not get, is how even smart guys like you hold on to this romanticized notion of the world of the NCAA. We produce no World Champs relatively from 800-marathon, I said relatively. Our best 200M guys 2/3 do not or did not even run college. None of the top of the sport, which is, the rest of the world, runs in the U.S. College system. It actually looks stupid to even prop it up as some necessary experience. If you are good enough, you run NOW, for money, before you step in some cactus hole and get hurt and get nothing. You can do everything you need in this sport without College. I like/love the College Sport, but it certainly is not a necessary proving ground for anyone.That is actually also not even arguable. Centrowitz excluded, I guess? Brazier was out quick when it was clear he was great, if any other U.S guys got near the deal that Kessler did, None, NONE would run in college. And, as they say in Goodfellas....now we can eat!! LOL.
Excuse me? World Champions across Junior and Senior ranks Donovan Brazier; Roisin Willis; Ajee Wilson; Mary Cain; Matt Centrowitz; Jenny Simpson; Emma Coburn; Athing Mu; Bernard Lagat
What I just do not get, is how even smart guys like you hold on to this romanticized notion of the world of the NCAA. We produce no World Champs relatively from 800-marathon, I said relatively. Our best 200M guys 2/3 do not or did not even run college. None of the top of the sport, which is, the rest of the world, runs in the U.S. College system. It actually looks stupid to even prop it up as some necessary experience. If you are good enough, you run NOW, for money, before you step in some cactus hole and get hurt and get nothing. You can do everything you need in this sport without College. I like/love the College Sport, but it certainly is not a necessary proving ground for anyone.That is actually also not even arguable. Centrowitz excluded, I guess? Brazier was out quick when it was clear he was great, if any other U.S guys got near the deal that Kessler did, None, NONE would run in college. And, as they say in Goodfellas....now we can eat!! LOL.
Excuse me? World Champions across Junior and Senior ranks Donovan Brazier; Roisin Willis; Ajee Wilson; Mary Cain; Matt Centrowitz; Jenny Simpson; Emma Coburn; Athing Mu; Bernard Lagat
We were talking men clearly and i mentioned Centro and Brazier
and no one cares about Junior titles sorry snd Lagat? Really?
I think NIL has changed things a little bit. Could Adidas pay him huge money at NAU or Oregon with Nike? Absent of that factor, which has only just begun with Tuohy, no argument.
What I just do not get, is how even smart guys like you hold on to this romanticized notion of the world of the NCAA. We produce no World Champs relatively from 800-marathon, I said relatively. Our best 200M guys 2/3 do not or did not even run college. None of the top of the sport, which is, the rest of the world, runs in the U.S. College system. It actually looks stupid to even prop it up as some necessary experience. If you are good enough, you run NOW, for money, before you step in some cactus hole and get hurt and get nothing. You can do everything you need in this sport without College. I like/love the College Sport, but it certainly is not a necessary proving ground for anyone.That is actually also not even arguable. Centrowitz excluded, I guess? Brazier was out quick when it was clear he was great, if any other U.S guys got near the deal that Kessler did, None, NONE would run in college. And, as they say in Goodfellas....now we can eat!! LOL.
I'm no ncaa zealot, but this is just a dumb comment. Like so dumb it confounds reason for one to even comprehend it.
Excuse me? World Champions across Junior and Senior ranks Donovan Brazier; Roisin Willis; Ajee Wilson; Mary Cain; Matt Centrowitz; Jenny Simpson; Emma Coburn; Athing Mu; Bernard Lagat
We were talking men clearly and i mentioned Centro and Brazier
and no one cares about Junior titles sorry snd Lagat? Really?
as a U.S guy? He was a foreign collegian
get a clue
Lagat was in the NCAA system and became a world beater, he's not from the US but he's a product of the NCAA
Well thx for calling me smart! The NCAA system has created a lot of sprint/jumps champions, so I’d dispute you on that aspect. It is an excellent developmental system for that. For mid-distance I’d tend to agree it is not some perfectly ideal setup. So many races, two full track seasons, early peak to make an US team etc. That being said a lot of MD medalists like Josh Kerr, Nick Willis, Matt Centrowitz, Leo Manzano, Donovan Brazier, Emmanuel Korir, Clayton Murphy have come through the NCAA system. Not saying correlation is causation, but it is a good place to learn tactics, have a team to support you, training partners etc. Agree that Hobbs’ own setup appears to be very good. There’re multiple ways to skin a cat or run 3:30 in this case, but the NCAA system isn’t bad by any means.
Well thx for calling me smart! The NCAA system has created a lot of sprint/jumps champions, so I’d dispute you on that aspect. It is an excellent developmental system for that. For mid-distance I’d tend to agree it is not some perfectly ideal setup. So many races, two full track seasons, early peak to make an US team etc. That being said a lot of MD medalists like Josh Kerr, Nick Willis, Matt Centrowitz, Leo Manzano, Donovan Brazier, Emmanuel Korir, Clayton Murphy have come through the NCAA system. Not saying correlation is causation, but it is a good place to learn tactics, have a team to support you, training partners etc. Agree that Hobbs’ own setup appears to be very good. There’re multiple ways to skin a cat or run 3:30 in this case, but the NCAA system isn’t bad by any means.
Brazier? A product of the system, he ran one year right? Three other guys are not American, I was speaking of American guys, and I thought said so. And None of them had the monetary choice Kessler did, way different time in history. But I get your point. I will revise some of what I said.
What is/was the story for him re: NAU? Is he still a student there, or did he leave after one semester or something? I know he never intended to compete for the team, but I thought he was going to study and train there.
Once he signed the pro deal the plan was always to go for one semester and then come back. I think like class schedule, room mate and stuff had already been set at that point.
What I just do not get, is how even smart guys like you hold on to this romanticized notion of the world of the NCAA. We produce no World Champs relatively from 800-marathon, I said relatively. Our best 200M guys 2/3 do not or did not even run college. None of the top of the sport, which is, the rest of the world, runs in the U.S. College system. It actually looks stupid to even prop it up as some necessary experience. If you are good enough, you run NOW, for money, before you step in some cactus hole and get hurt and get nothing. You can do everything you need in this sport without College. I like/love the College Sport, but it certainly is not a necessary proving ground for anyone.That is actually also not even arguable. Centrowitz excluded, I guess? Brazier was out quick when it was clear he was great, if any other U.S guys got near the deal that Kessler did, None, NONE would run in college. And, as they say in Goodfellas....now we can eat!! LOL.
You are joking right? Kessler wasn’t going to be a world champion in the last 2 years or the next 2 years. Instead of running at the very back of pro races he could be running at the front of ncaa races. Without having to complete against completely doped up fields.
He will probably be the last mid to distance star to skip ncaa entirely because of NIL and that is a good thing.
Brazier? A product of the system, he ran one year right? Three other guys are not American, I was speaking of American guys, and I thought said so. And None of them had the monetary choice Kessler did, way different time in history. But I get your point. I will revise some of what I said.
Brazier it's true ran 1 year. But he went from barely trained in HS to a professional, sustainable approach in Texas A&M. So I'd say that year did a ton for him. He struggled the next year or two when he went pro (and solo) without have the A&M apparatus in place for him. He returned to thriving when he was back on a team with more hands-on coaching and training partners like he'd get in college.
I guess I didn't see the relevance of keeping it to American guys when doing a holistic look at the NCAA and mid-distance. I do agree with Kessler's decision, so we do agree. Were there an alternate world where we fast-forward 2 years and he could make a good chunk of money training for one of the schools I mentioned it might be different. Given the options, it was right to take the money and he's built a nice setup. My only concern with Michigan is the winter and no altitude, but it seems they go to Flag for altitude and they have access to the Michigan indoor track. Good enough for me. Sure I'd love if he had a training partner closer to his abilities, but then they just added Grice and most of the World's best right now (Jakob, Wightman, Tim Cheruiyot, Kerr, McSweyn) don't have a second guy in their group close to their level.
What I just do not get, is how even smart guys like you hold on to this romanticized notion of the world of the NCAA. We produce no World Champs relatively from 800-marathon, I said relatively. Our best 200M guys 2/3 do not or did not even run college. None of the top of the sport, which is, the rest of the world, runs in the U.S. College system. It actually looks stupid to even prop it up as some necessary experience. If you are good enough, you run NOW, for money, before you step in some cactus hole and get hurt and get nothing. You can do everything you need in this sport without College. I like/love the College Sport, but it certainly is not a necessary proving ground for anyone.That is actually also not even arguable. Centrowitz excluded, I guess? Brazier was out quick when it was clear he was great, if any other U.S guys got near the deal that Kessler did, None, NONE would run in college. And, as they say in Goodfellas....now we can eat!! LOL.
You are joking right? Kessler wasn’t going to be a world champion in the last 2 years or the next 2 years. Instead of running at the very back of pro races he could be running at the front of ncaa races. Without having to complete against completely doped up fields.
He will probably be the last mid to distance star to skip ncaa entirely because of NIL and that is a good thing.
You have very little understanding of the Mid/Distance running marketplace for earnings, if you or anyone else thinks Kessler or anyone else is ever getting the kind of deal he got as a College Mid/LD runner.. You have no real idea of what goes or is going on here at all. Kessler got a life changing deal, that was never available to anyone ever at his young age from the U.S. NIL or not, that Money is never being paid to some college guy, not yet anyway. Plus, people discount the continuity piece here. Ron knows what he is doing, Kessler is better and infinitely more fit than he ever was , even than when he caught the "one Off" 3:34.x, he is so much better now, at much much higher and quality of training volume. Your position and premise is a clueless one based on things you have no perspective on.
Brazier? A product of the system, he ran one year right? Three other guys are not American, I was speaking of American guys, and I thought said so. And None of them had the monetary choice Kessler did, way different time in history. But I get your point. I will revise some of what I said.
Brazier it's true ran 1 year. But he went from barely trained in HS to a professional, sustainable approach in Texas A&M. So I'd say that year did a ton for him. He struggled the next year or two when he went pro (and solo) without have the A&M apparatus in place for him. He returned to thriving when he was back on a team with more hands-on coaching and training partners like he'd get in college.
I guess I didn't see the relevance of keeping it to American guys when doing a holistic look at the NCAA and mid-distance. I do agree with Kessler's decision, so we do agree. Were there an alternate world where we fast-forward 2 years and he could make a good chunk of money training for one of the schools I mentioned it might be different. Given the options, it was right to take the money and he's built a nice setup. My only concern with Michigan is the winter and no altitude, but it seems they go to Flag for altitude and they have access to the Michigan indoor track. Good enough for me. Sure I'd love if he had a training partner closer to his abilities, but then they just added Grice and most of the World's best right now (Jakob, Wightman, Tim Cheruiyot, Kerr, McSweyn) don't have a second guy in their group close to their level.
Just when I thought you were smart..LOL, trust me, every piece has been carefully thought through. Really really great guys , do not always have a "training partner" that close to their own abilities, VNTC has a nice mix right now of guys running well and able to run high quality and even moreso, great strength stuff.
On the other issue with the NIL..no one is ever going to pay a College 1500 type anywhere near what Kessler got or will get in those 4 years. The return for the school is just not the same as it is for a shoe company, even that is hard to measure, I think.
You have very little understanding of the Mid/Distance running marketplace for earnings, if you or anyone else thinks Kessler or anyone else is ever getting the kind of deal he got as a College Mid/LD runner.. You have no real idea of what goes or is going on here at all. Kessler got a life changing deal, that was never available to anyone ever at his young age from the U.S. NIL or not, that Money is never being paid to some college guy, not yet anyway. Plus, people discount the continuity piece here. Ron knows what he is doing, Kessler is better and infinitely more fit than he ever was , even than when he caught the "one Off" 3:34.x, he is so much better now, at much much higher and quality of training volume. Your position and premise is a clueless one based on things you have no perspective on.
Ok, please inform us on the details of his deal, otherwise you are just blowing hot air like most posters on this forum. Still waiting for that Titan to fall. So far he is being paid a lot if money (according to you) to run at the back of pro races. Forgetting money, that isn’t necessarily the best development environment. You have no idea how much money is being dropped in NIL deals now. The need to immediately go pro is just old thinking. Taking a couple years in the ncaa has become a more viable option.
You have very little understanding of the Mid/Distance running marketplace for earnings, if you or anyone else thinks Kessler or anyone else is ever getting the kind of deal he got as a College Mid/LD runner.. You have no real idea of what goes or is going on here at all. Kessler got a life changing deal, that was never available to anyone ever at his young age from the U.S. NIL or not, that Money is never being paid to some college guy, not yet anyway. Plus, people discount the continuity piece here. Ron knows what he is doing, Kessler is better and infinitely more fit than he ever was , even than when he caught the "one Off" 3:34.x, he is so much better now, at much much higher and quality of training volume. Your position and premise is a clueless one based on things you have no perspective on.
Ok, please inform us on the details of his deal, otherwise you are just blowing hot air like most posters on this forum. Still waiting for that Titan to fall. So far he is being paid a lot if money (according to you) to run at the back of pro races. Forgetting money, that isn’t necessarily the best development environment. You have no idea how much money is being dropped in NIL deals now. The need to immediately go pro is just old thinking. Taking a couple years in the ncaa has become a more viable option.
Ok, please inform us on the details of his deal, otherwise you are just blowing hot air like most posters on this forum.
It's cute when folks don't have any clue of context or history. King's been around forums for years and while I don't agree with some of his opinions, it is hard to dispute his information. Speaking of which, whatever happened to mrr82?
Just when I thought you were smart..LOL, trust me, every piece has been carefully thought through. Really really great guys , do not always have a "training partner" that close to their own abilities, VNTC has a nice mix right now of guys running well and able to run high quality and even moreso, great strength stuff.
On the other issue with the NIL..no one is ever going to pay a College 1500 type anywhere near what Kessler got or will get in those 4 years. The return for the school is just not the same as it is for a shoe company, even that is hard to measure, I think.
Hey I’m on your side with the training partners thing. Doesn’t seem to matter too much any more and I’ve changed my views on it. Everything’s pretty scientific in many ways or if you have a coach who’s seen everything like Ron that does the trick too. I watched a Sweat Elite video of Katir and he’s taking his lactate every 5 reps, and going completely by feel and he’s perceiving his own effort perfectly. Doesn’t feel like he needs anyone beyond for the occasional camaraderie.
In fact you can make the argument that for a young super-talented guy like Hobbs it’s better he’s kicking guys’ asses in training and building confidence. Not everything has to be the KIM group of the ‘90s, most of those guys could only make it 5 years at that intensity anyhow.
The NIL thing I’m sure you’re right. I wonder if Roisin Willis wanted to get maximal money what she’d get? Certainly not what would await her in a contract, no argument from me. How do you value a college team/environment? Seems to depend on the athlete. Again I think Hobbs has done it right and will have the formula for this season. You’re in the know and I’m sure everything has been carefully put together. VNTC looks like a great mix of guys, it’s fun to follow and I do really think he’ll take a nice step fwd this year.