Was the High Jumper also training in El Paso? If so, it would appear that there was a system going on. There’s been a lot of PED connections to El Paso.
Would be extremely random. He didn’t attend UTEP like Saruni. Again it sounds to me like Saruni’s doping infraction was in Kenya not El Paso.
Ethiopia has produced many of the most absurd performances coming from out of nowhere, and this is a country where doping products were available right outside the national stadium, with many runners managed by the same sketchy European agents, including NN, a country with a history of links to the former Soviet Bloc and its doping. So, I do not for an instant believe that Ethiopian athletes dope less than Kenyans. They have the same incentives, the same agents, even more absurd performances, and a much more systematic approach to athletics, only very, very much less testing and none in country that I know of.
The Ethiopians are doping just as blatantly as the Kenyans. It is just a matter of setting up a better AIU testing infrastructure.
The AIU itself doesn’t seem to think so. Hey, you might be right but it feels like more if an assumption (if A is true, then B must be) then actual certainty.
What makes you say that? They put Ethiopia in the same category ("most likely to dope") as Kenya in 2018, and that still hasn't changed.
Kenya and Ethiopia head a list of nations categorised by the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) as being the most at risk of do...
Ethiopia has produced many of the most absurd performances coming from out of nowhere, and this is a country where doping products were available right outside the national stadium, with many runners managed by the same sketchy European agents, including NN, a country with a history of links to the former Soviet Bloc and its doping. So, I do not for an instant believe that Ethiopian athletes dope less than Kenyans. They have the same incentives, the same agents, even more absurd performances, and a much more systematic approach to athletics, only very, very much less testing and none in country that I know of.
Exactly. To use antidoping resources more effectively, a 5-year ban should be placed on Kenya ASAP - the ever increasing pile of Kenyan busts is now only confirming what we already know - that doping is endemic in Kenya. So stop wasting time and money and ban them already.
Next, focus the antidoping resources on Ethiopia and confirm the endemic doping in this region within the next 2 years and then apply the appropriate sanctions.
Ethiopia has produced many of the most absurd performances coming from out of nowhere, and this is a country where doping products were available right outside the national stadium, with many runners managed by the same sketchy European agents, including NN, a country with a history of links to the former Soviet Bloc and its doping. So, I do not for an instant believe that Ethiopian athletes dope less than Kenyans. They have the same incentives, the same agents, even more absurd performances, and a much more systematic approach to athletics, only very, very much less testing and none in country that I know of.
There is no in country testing in Ethiopia? That is crazy if true
Why should it be accepted that US elites are doping less because they arent testing positive? Fact is we have the best medical experts here, not in Kenya. This could be a big reason why they are getting busted and US/Euro athletes arent. Its not simply a matter of access to drugs, its covering and hiding it using science. Africa simply isn't sophisticated enough, hence the positives.
Why should it be accepted that US elites are doping less because they arent testing positive? Fact is we have the best medical experts here, not in Kenya. This could be a big reason why they are getting busted and US/Euro athletes arent. Its not simply a matter of access to drugs, its covering and hiding it using science. Africa simply isn't sophisticated enough, hence the positives.
Why can't you just accept that people in these poor African countries are more incentivized to dope, leading to more people testing positive. Winning a single big race is a ticket out of poverty for many of these runners in a way that it isn't in Western nations. Geniunely baffling to watch 30+ people test positive this year alone and people still wan't to act like this is normal and somehow are only being caught because they are less sophisticated.
Ethiopia has produced many of the most absurd performances coming from out of nowhere, and this is a country where doping products were available right outside the national stadium, with many runners managed by the same sketchy European agents, including NN, a country with a history of links to the former Soviet Bloc and its doping. So, I do not for an instant believe that Ethiopian athletes dope less than Kenyans. They have the same incentives, the same agents, even more absurd performances, and a much more systematic approach to athletics, only very, very much less testing and none in country that I know of.
There is no in country testing in Ethiopia? That is crazy if true
this probably isn't a big enough name for that one thread is it...?
It is, but I'm fairly sure that guy was just trolling. A few big names went down a few days before his thread, so it doesn't take an insider to guess that some more are coming.
Looks like antidoping is catching up to whatever the kenyans are using to cheat.
Understood, thanks. So among the countries most likely to dope, one is more most likely to dope than the other, according to the AIU head.
I don’t quite understand what you are getting at. Kenya is at a worse status than Ethiopia (they have to have 3 tests to even enter Worlds/Olympics), and they have more guys getting busted even adjusting for having more elite athletes. So they are not at the same level, and the doping problem is worse in Kenya. That is evident from the number of bans. The cynical/lazy inference would be to say Ethiopia is only doing better due to a lack of testing. The person in the position to say that with intimate knowledge of the situation doesn’t believe that is what it is.
Why can't you just accept that people in these poor African countries are more incentivized to dope, leading to more people testing positive. Winning a single big race is a ticket out of poverty for many of these runners in a way that it isn't in Western nations. Geniunely baffling to watch 30+ people test positive this year alone and people still wan't to act like this is normal and somehow are only being caught because they are less sophisticated.
While you’re correct that the incentives are huge to dope in Africa, you’re probably being naive in response to the poster. If EPO, TUE abuse and microdosing work as well as people think, you could be talking about a 4:02/3:34 runner making 50-80k struggling to make teams vs a 3:56/3:30 runner making 200-400K a year through the additional bonuses, appearance fees etc . That’s a large incentive, even if not as desperate a situation to dope as Africa.
Why can't you just accept that people in these poor African countries are more incentivized to dope, leading to more people testing positive. Winning a single big race is a ticket out of poverty for many of these runners in a way that it isn't in Western nations. Geniunely baffling to watch 30+ people test positive this year alone and people still wan't to act like this is normal and somehow are only being caught because they are less sophisticated.
While you’re correct that the incentives are huge to dope in Africa, you’re probably being naive in response to the poster. If EPO, TUE abuse and microdosing work as well as people think, you could be talking about a 4:02/3:34 runner making 50-80k struggling to make teams vs a 3:56/3:30 runner making 200-400K a year through the additional bonuses, appearance fees etc . That’s a large incentive, even if not as desperate a situation to dope as Africa.
I doubt somebody like McSweyn makes 400K a year.
The difference between 80K a year and 400K a year in the West is nothing, compared to the difference between 0K a year and even 10K a year in Kenya. In Kenya 10K is the equivalent of being a millionaire in the West.
Then in the West, your name gets tarnished as a drug cheat for life. Not only is your athletics career over (including coaching etc), but it will likely damage your career prospects for life, as well as even your social life. In places like Kenya, there is virtually no stigma in 'cheating'. It's not even regarded as cheating - it's just life. You win a couple of marathons, you get popped, and you retire in comfort in your Kenyan village with your family for the rest of your life.
Why should it be accepted that US elites are doping less because they arent testing positive? Fact is we have the best medical experts here, not in Kenya. This could be a big reason why they are getting busted and US/Euro athletes arent. Its not simply a matter of access to drugs, its covering and hiding it using science. Africa simply isn't sophisticated enough, hence the positives.
The scale of doping in Kenya is off the charts, but you're right that doping in western countries gets overlooked or dismissed as "one bad apple." The contaminated meet defense that so many athletes use is ridiculous and I include Wilson and Lawson in that, not just Houlihan. You're also right that western coaching set-ups have more sophisticated practices using masking agents and microdosing. Salazar is an obvious example of a coach operating in these kinds of shady areas but he's far from the only one - how many Schumacher athletes have been on thyroid meds, inhalers, or other TUEs? How many athletes or coaches have found a doctor who will sign off on a TUE with little evidence of need?
Again, Kenya has huge problems, but it's hard for people in western countries to be sanctimonious about it
