Tough dude. Somewhere I read a quote that Kogo and Biwott told George that they know he would have won the 1968 Olympic steeple if it had been held at sea level.
I can't remember if it was a Bob Schul interview on Gary Cohen's site or a George Young interview on the same site. The site is currently messed up and you get ads for erectile dysfunction drugs if you try to get on it. But there's a funny story on there about George, Bob, and a young Jim Ryun doing a workout of sets of 4 x 400 in 60, 60, 60, 58 before the Tokyo Olympics in 1964.
Schul led one, Young led one, but when it was Ryun's turn to lead another in 60 he lost his mind and ran a 56. Schul and Young were like "We're not gonna let his HS kid beat us, even in a workout!" so the workout went from controlled to out of control quickly!
I felt bad that Young got hurt between the 72 trials and Munich. He said that after Munich a chiropracter fixed him with one adjustment. In the training diaries at the end of his bio "Always Young", I was struck by what I saw as pointless variations on short interval training. The longest ones he did were only 660y. I wonder how he would have done with repeats of 1000m, 1200m, 1600m, etc. like almost all distance runners use nowadays?
This is the first and probably the last time I ever will post. Given the subject, I felt compelled to jump in. George Young was my coach and mentor. He was a tough SOB and I loved him for that! He helped pave the path for my short running career and pointed me toward my goal of representing the United States in Barcelona. I will forever be grateful. RIP Coach.
Tough dude. Somewhere I read a quote that Kogo and Biwott told George that they know he would have won the 1968 Olympic steeple if it had been held at sea level.
I can't remember if it was a Bob Schul interview on Gary Cohen's site or a George Young interview on the same site. The site is currently messed up and you get ads for erectile dysfunction drugs if you try to get on it. But there's a funny story on there about George, Bob, and a young Jim Ryun doing a workout of sets of 4 x 400 in 60, 60, 60, 58 before the Tokyo Olympics in 1964.
Schul led one, Young led one, but when it was Ryun's turn to lead another in 60 he lost his mind and ran a 56. Schul and Young were like "We're not gonna let his HS kid beat us, even in a workout!" so the workout went from controlled to out of control quickly!
I felt bad that Young got hurt between the 72 trials and Munich. He said that after Munich a chiropracter fixed him with one adjustment. In the training diaries at the end of his bio "Always Young", I was struck by what I saw as pointless variations on short interval training. The longest ones he did were only 660y. I wonder how he would have done with repeats of 1000m, 1200m, 1600m, etc. like almost all distance runners use nowadays?
From the article cited in the LR article, referring to the 1972 OT 5000m:
"Young today still has strong feelings about the race: “I can tell you this. If I had been in the condition I was four years before, I would have kicked his ass.”
So I think we can guess what Young's answer to your question would be.
Thanks for the article. But calling Young the "most complete American Distance runner ever" is I think inaccurate. Young competed in the steeplechase for most of his career and only ran the 5,000 by his own admission, only a few times. He ran the marathon twice. Somebody like Frank Shorter who competed (and won) on the roads, the track and cross country strikes me as a much more complete runner.
Thanks for the article. But calling Young the "most complete American Distance runner ever" is I think inaccurate. Young competed in the steeplechase for most of his career and only ran the 5,000 by his own admission, only a few times. He ran the marathon twice. Somebody like Frank Shorter who competed (and won) on the roads, the track and cross country strikes me as a much more complete runner.
I wish I had started a thread just about whether Young was the most complete one ever. Guy was sub-4 in the mile and made an Olympic team at steeple, 5000 and marathon. Frank Shorter only did it in 10k and marathon right? I assume YOung is the only guy to make it in the marathon and an event shorter than 5000, right?
Or has a 1500 or steeple guy also moved up to the marathon?
Rupp obviously has made it in 5k, 10k and marathon and run 349 in the mile. But he's never run the steeple.
Thanks for the article. But calling Young the "most complete American Distance runner ever" is I think inaccurate. Young competed in the steeplechase for most of his career and only ran the 5,000 by his own admission, only a few times. He ran the marathon twice. Somebody like Frank Shorter who competed (and won) on the roads, the track and cross country strikes me as a much more complete runner.
I wish I had started a thread just about whether Young was the most complete one ever. Guy was sub-4 in the mile and made an Olympic team at steeple, 5000 and marathon. Frank Shorter only did it in 10k and marathon right? I assume YOung is the only guy to make it in the marathon and an event shorter than 5000, right?
Or has a 1500 or steeple guy also moved up to the marathon?
Rupp obviously has made it in 5k, 10k and marathon and run 349 in the mile. But he's never run the steeple.
Yes, that would be a good thread topic. I don't think making the Olympic team in the widest variety of events should be the standard for "most complete." Young was 10 minutes off the winner in the Olympic marathon. Great runner, but it's not like he dominated all the way across the board from mile to steeple to marathon. Yes, I know he won the trials marathon and the Olympics wasn't a reflection of his true marathon potential, but still.
Nevertheless, I enjoyed reading up on him and agree that he was underappreciated.
Thanks for putting that up, I don't think I originally saw it though I always looked for Scott Douglas's work in Running Times. If he still visits this board, retro props to smd!
Thanks for the article. But calling Young the "most complete American Distance runner ever" is I think inaccurate. Young competed in the steeplechase for most of his career and only ran the 5,000 by his own admission, only a few times. He ran the marathon twice. Somebody like Frank Shorter who competed (and won) on the roads, the track and cross country strikes me as a much more complete runner.
I wish I had started a thread just about whether Young was the most complete one ever. Guy was sub-4 in the mile and made an Olympic team at steeple, 5000 and marathon. Frank Shorter only did it in 10k and marathon right? I assume YOung is the only guy to make it in the marathon and an event shorter than 5000, right?
Or has a 1500 or steeple guy also moved up to the marathon?
Rupp obviously has made it in 5k, 10k and marathon and run 349 in the mile. But he's never run the steeple.
Young sounds like most distance runners...if, coulda, woulda, shoulda...every runner says he could've been better after their career is done. There's no way he wins the Munich 5000 like he says he would've. He couldn't beat Pre or Viren and from what I've read he lost to the Russians more than he beat them. In fact, I'll bet he lost more races than he won. And he never raced 10000 meters so right there his credentials suffer.
Multiple distances mean very little if you're not competitive in them. Dan Lincoln was a more complete runner than Young if you're going only by steeplers. Dan Huling too.
In the training diaries at the end of his bio "Always Young", I was struck by what I saw as pointless variations on short interval training. The longest ones he did were only 660y. I wonder how he would have done with repeats of 1000m, 1200m, 1600m, etc. like almost all distance runners use nowadays?
That´s how many 5000m runners trained back then. Bob Schul trained in a similar way.
Not unlikely that he would've been best at that race or at least better than the Kenyans. On the other hand, his altitude preparation was very good, and Gaston Roelants was arguably better at sea level. The fresh WR holder Jouko Kuha also decided not to compete at altitude at all due to mountain sickness / bad experiences.
IIRC, he was a part of the Finnish sports delegation at the 1965 pre-Olympics, but got ill even before competing.
I wish I had started a thread just about whether Young was the most complete one ever. Guy was sub-4 in the mile and made an Olympic team at steeple, 5000 and marathon. Frank Shorter only did it in 10k and marathon right? I assume YOung is the only guy to make it in the marathon and an event shorter than 5000, right?
Or has a 1500 or steeple guy also moved up to the marathon?
Rupp obviously has made it in 5k, 10k and marathon and run 349 in the mile. But he's never run the steeple.
Young sounds like most distance runners...if, coulda, woulda, shoulda...every runner says he could've been better after their career is done. There's no way he wins the Munich 5000 like he says he would've. He couldn't beat Pre or Viren and from what I've read he lost to the Russians more than he beat them. In fact, I'll bet he lost more races than he won. And he never raced 10000 meters so right there his credentials suffer.
Multiple distances mean very little if you're not competitive in them. Dan Lincoln was a more complete runner than Young if you're going only by steeplers. Dan Huling too.
I wish I had started a thread just about whether Young was the most complete one ever. Guy was sub-4 in the mile and made an Olympic team at steeple, 5000 and marathon. Frank Shorter only did it in 10k and marathon right? I assume YOung is the only guy to make it in the marathon and an event shorter than 5000, right?
Or has a 1500 or steeple guy also moved up to the marathon?
Rupp obviously has made it in 5k, 10k and marathon and run 349 in the mile. But he's never run the steeple.
Young sounds like most distance runners...if, coulda, woulda, shoulda...every runner says he could've been better after their career is done. There's no way he wins the Munich 5000 like he says he would've. He couldn't beat Pre or Viren and from what I've read he lost to the Russians more than he beat them. In fact, I'll bet he lost more races than he won. And he never raced 10000 meters so right there his credentials suffer.
Multiple distances mean very little if you're not competitive in them. Dan Lincoln was a more complete runner than Young if you're going only by steeplers. Dan Huling too.
Marc Davis (another UA alumnus) and Anthony Famiglietti, too.
This is the first and probably the last time I ever will post. Given the subject, I felt compelled to jump in. George Young was my coach and mentor. He was a tough SOB and I loved him for that! He helped pave the path for my short running career and pointed me toward my goal of representing the United States in Barcelona. I will forever be grateful. RIP Coach.
Danny Lopez, '92 US Olympic Team
3,000m SC
I wonder how many former elites like Danny Lopez lurk these boards but are reluctant to post due to the environment the sites owners have fostered here.
Thanks for the article. But calling Young the "most complete American Distance runner ever" is I think inaccurate. Young competed in the steeplechase for most of his career and only ran the 5,000 by his own admission, only a few times. He ran the marathon twice. Somebody like Frank Shorter who competed (and won) on the roads, the track and cross country strikes me as a much more complete runner.
I wish I had started a thread just about whether Young was the most complete one ever. Guy was sub-4 in the mile and made an Olympic team at steeple, 5000 and marathon. Frank Shorter only did it in 10k and marathon right? I assume YOung is the only guy to make it in the marathon and an event shorter than 5000, right?
Or has a 1500 or steeple guy also moved up to the marathon?
Rupp obviously has made it in 5k, 10k and marathon and run 349 in the mile. But he's never run the steeple.
I must have missed Galen Rupp running a 3:49 mile. Many posters overrate Galen as a miler due to an aberrant time (3:50.92) on a super fast indoor track.
As far as most complete US runners (which is mostly due to superior talent) it would be difficult to surpass Bernard Lagat. His range went all the way from 1500m to the marathon, as evidenced by his 2:12 marathon at age 44. Bernard is one US runner who could probably have made a US Team at any event between 1500m to the marathon if that had been his focus in his prime.
But George Young was obviously a special runner and tenacious as can be.