I used triamcinolone topically for a good 5 years and not only was it not very effective in curing my allergic skin reactions, I also noticed 0 improvement in my athletic endeavors.
I have several unused tubes at home. I eventually switched to betamethasone.
Mind boggling to me that it is a PED.
The topical form is not performance enhancing. The discussion is around oral and injectable forms.
I use triamcinolone acetonide daily in joint, tendon, fascia injections. Anyone that's ever had a cortisone injection likely has had this too. It's a very common injectable steroid.
It's effective in relieving pain.
Performance enhancing? This is a bit much.
Topically? Even less chance that this is enhancing.
I use triamcinolone acetonide daily in joint, tendon, fascia injections. Anyone that's ever had a cortisone injection likely has had this too. It's a very common injectable steroid.
It's effective in relieving pain.
Performance enhancing? This is a bit much.
Topically? Even less chance that this is enhancing.
So why are all these Kenyans getting busted for it? Even if it doesn't do much, they are cheating and they are near certainly cheating with stronger stuff too (EPO, rat poison, nandrolene etc. etc.).
How is this so performance-enhancing acutely in competition that numerous ‘somewhat high-profile’ Kenyan athletes are willing to risk everything just so they can take this the day of competition, when they can take it all they want outside of competition??
So far, explanations by cyclists who used it and claims of weight loss without power loss seem like training effects to get you where you want to be on race day. But it’s not banned in training. Caffeine, for example, is great at acutely enhancing performance (for most people) and we have thousands of studies to explain why. If caffeine was banned in competition, I’d understand why people would still try to use it in-competition. But I haven’t heard an explanation of why triamcinolone acetonide is so great that using it in training isn’t enough, and that you MUST use it within 24 hours of the race. It’s weird, and it feels like there’s a huge piece of the whole story missing.
How is this so performance-enhancing acutely in competition that numerous ‘somewhat high-profile’ Kenyan athletes are willing to risk everything just so they can take this the day of competition, when they can take it all they want outside of competition??
So far, explanations by cyclists who used it and claims of weight loss without power loss seem like training effects to get you where you want to be on race day. But it’s not banned in training. Caffeine, for example, is great at acutely enhancing performance (for most people) and we have thousands of studies to explain why. If caffeine was banned in competition, I’d understand why people would still try to use it in-competition. But I haven’t heard an explanation of why triamcinolone acetonide is so great that using it in training isn’t enough, and that you MUST use it within 24 hours of the race. It’s weird, and it feels like there’s a huge piece of the whole story missing.
The missing piece is likely other drugs in the cocktail. And who thinks that reducing inflammation in training and racing would be a bad thing? Probably reduces recovery times. Do docs give cortisone shots to allow athletes to compete when they otherwise could not? Sounds performance enhancing. Every little bit helps. They are not just randomly taking drugs.
How is this so performance-enhancing acutely in competition that numerous ‘somewhat high-profile’ Kenyan athletes are willing to risk everything just so they can take this the day of competition, when they can take it all they want outside of competition??
So far, explanations by cyclists who used it and claims of weight loss without power loss seem like training effects to get you where you want to be on race day. But it’s not banned in training. Caffeine, for example, is great at acutely enhancing performance (for most people) and we have thousands of studies to explain why. If caffeine was banned in competition, I’d understand why people would still try to use it in-competition. But I haven’t heard an explanation of why triamcinolone acetonide is so great that using it in training isn’t enough, and that you MUST use it within 24 hours of the race. It’s weird, and it feels like there’s a huge piece of the whole story missing.
The missing piece is likely other drugs in the cocktail. And who thinks that reducing inflammation in training and racing would be a bad thing? Probably reduces recovery times. Do docs give cortisone shots to allow athletes to compete when they otherwise could not? Sounds performance enhancing. Every little bit helps. They are not just randomly taking drugs.
Lol, you didn't even attempt to answer the question. I never said reducing inflammation is a bad thing; but I did say the drug seems to be helpful for training (although we could have a completely off-topic debate about whether you should try to reduce inflammation or not). And yeah, in cases of inflammation preventing normal movement without pain, cortisone would be helpful so they could compete. But in healthy runners, what does triamcinolone acetonide do in the immediate 24 hour period to make you run faster? You literally didn't address that question at all (this is why students fail classes because they can't address the prompt lol). Saying "they take other drugs" also doesn't answer the question of why they are taking triamcinolone acetonide during competition. They could just take it in training and still take the other 'cocktail of drugs' that actually do something acutely and that they apparently don't test positive for.
So why are all these Kenyans getting busted for it? Even if it doesn't do much, they are cheating and they are near certainly cheating with stronger stuff too (EPO, rat poison, nandrolene etc. etc.).
The tinfoil hat conspiracy theory stuff is hilarious when you realize just how ill-informed its peddlers are. The idea of someone "doping" with warfarin is just laughable.
I use triamcinolone acetonide daily in joint, tendon, fascia injections. Anyone that's ever had a cortisone injection likely has had this too. It's a very common injectable steroid.
It's effective in relieving pain.
Performance enhancing? This is a bit much.
Topically? Even less chance that this is enhancing.
Pain, pain, pain.
Anyone in here ever redlined... that 5k agony? This numbs that and allows one to redline for longer. Its use in cycling is obvious as they have power meters to know exactly where their line is and how long they can stay there or above given current fitness. Shut up legs indeed!
"With four more open investigations into triamcinolone acetonide use by Kenyan athletes, this story does not appear to be over yet. Demadonna says one of the athletes currently being investigated is another one of his clients, and he is at a loss about what to do."
So how are the lucky winners ? Probably not some "household" names...
BTW it seems Kacheran has been airbrushed out of ineos159challenge - pacemakers !
How is this so performance-enhancing acutely in competition that numerous ‘somewhat high-profile’ Kenyan athletes are willing to risk everything just so they can take this the day of competition, when they can take it all they want outside of competition??
So far, explanations by cyclists who used it and claims of weight loss without power loss seem like training effects to get you where you want to be on race day. But it’s not banned in training. Caffeine, for example, is great at acutely enhancing performance (for most people) and we have thousands of studies to explain why. If caffeine was banned in competition, I’d understand why people would still try to use it in-competition. But I haven’t heard an explanation of why triamcinolone acetonide is so great that using it in training isn’t enough, and that you MUST use it within 24 hours of the race. It’s weird, and it feels like there’s a huge piece of the whole story missing.
Great question. The simplest explanation is these aren't sophisticated dopers/schemes we're dealing with. For whatever reason, this is being pushed upon Kenyan athletes over the last 2 years and many are taking it. It's probably like caffeine, to your point, and works to some degree. Maybe they're told it's not illegal, which technically it isn't in most contexts. So if you take it in training, pass tests (because it's not being tested for), find it to be agreeable with your body/pain, and you don't have a great understanding of the rules and their nuances, you'll take it close to a race mindlessly. Then you flunk at the first opportunity. I saw some tweet pointing this back to the agents and hitting back at Demadonna for blaming his athletes. I would just note any agent dumb enough to push a detectable drug to an athlete on race-day is not going to be in the game for very long. Even if he is some huge fan of the drug, he would push for his athletes to get a TUE, or operate in the gray area like Salazar knowing when it'd make no sense to use it.
How is this so performance-enhancing acutely in competition that numerous ‘somewhat high-profile’ Kenyan athletes are willing to risk everything just so they can take this the day of competition, when they can take it all they want outside of competition??
So far, explanations by cyclists who used it and claims of weight loss without power loss seem like training effects to get you where you want to be on race day. But it’s not banned in training. Caffeine, for example, is great at acutely enhancing performance (for most people) and we have thousands of studies to explain why. If caffeine was banned in competition, I’d understand why people would still try to use it in-competition. But I haven’t heard an explanation of why triamcinolone acetonide is so great that using it in training isn’t enough, and that you MUST use it within 24 hours of the race. It’s weird, and it feels like there’s a huge piece of the whole story missing.
Great question. The simplest explanation is these aren't sophisticated dopers/schemes we're dealing with. For whatever reason, this is being pushed upon Kenyan athletes over the last 2 years and many are taking it. It's probably like caffeine, to your point, and works to some degree. Maybe they're told it's not illegal, which technically it isn't in most contexts. So if you take it in training, pass tests (because it's not being tested for), find it to be agreeable with your body/pain, and you don't have a great understanding of the rules and their nuances, you'll take it close to a race mindlessly. Then you flunk at the first opportunity. I saw some tweet pointing this back to the agents and hitting back at Demadonna for blaming his athletes. I would just note any agent dumb enough to push a detectable drug to an athlete on race-day is not going to be in the game for very long. Even if he is some huge fan of the drug, he would push for his athletes to get a TUE, or operate in the gray area like Salazar knowing when it'd make no sense to use it.
I think your explanation is probably the most plausible. I understand that people are against doping and tha 'cheaters' really upset them. But in my opinion, these examples with triamcinolone acetonide don't support the idea the these Kenyan athletes are knowingly attempting to cheat. In a way, I kind of feel bad for them because there has to be some lack of education, or someone is lying to them.. I don't really know, but it just doesn't make sense. I mean, if you're seriously trying to dope and taking testosterone, EPO, glucocorticoids, have a TUE for an inhaler on race day like 1/4 of the field does (which isn't that the same or similar class of drug?), etc... there's not much logical reason to also take triamcinolone acetonide specifically on race day when it probably doesn't even do much acutely that you couldn't get with albuertol and caffeine, and you're almost guaranteed to test positive.
Triamcinolone acetonide IS something inconsequential in terms of performance enhancement.
Why don't you focus some of that foaming at the mouth anti African rage of yours into, for example, Paula Radcliffe's blood values? Or does that not interest you because she is British and white?
It's funny how the African doping apologists are saying this ped is inconsequential, yet have used Bradley Wiggins TUE for it as evidence that all British runners have been juiced to the gills in a state sponsored doping program since Harold Abrahams.
And why should I waste time on Paula Radcliffe from 20 years ago? If she was one of the few non Spanish Westerners on the EPO train, all it further shows is what EPO can do whatever the color of skin, and the complete and utter fallacy of the East African genetic superiority myth. How about you and your multiple throw away accounts show some concern over the weekly doping busts from Kenya that continue to make a joke of the sport? Well I guess whoever you are shilling for wouldn't like that.
Exactly is Paula was doping she is just one. We don't have an army on EPO
As for this 'new' drug. Its obvious that they have been using it for years and only started getting busted for it
It's funny how the African doping apologists are saying this ped is inconsequential, yet have used Bradley Wiggins TUE for it as evidence that all British runners have been juiced to the gills in a state sponsored doping program since Harold Abrahams.
And why should I waste time on Paula Radcliffe from 20 years ago? If she was one of the few non Spanish Westerners on the EPO train, all it further shows is what EPO can do whatever the color of skin, and the complete and utter fallacy of the East African genetic superiority myth. How about you and your multiple throw away accounts show some concern over the weekly doping busts from Kenya that continue to make a joke of the sport? Well I guess whoever you are shilling for wouldn't like that.
Exactly is Paula was doping she is just one. We don't have an army on EPO
As for this 'new' drug. Its obvious that they have been using it for years and only started getting busted for it
Exactly? How about Kelly Holmes' blood values? It's never just one. Nor two. You and Coevett like to point your dirty fingers at Africans and "forget" the filth you support at home.
Seems the racist Kenyan Nation publication is in agreement with Coevett, plus they're not raging about "Paula Radcliffe's blood values":
Shock as Kenyan runners banned for doping in 2022 reach 23 | Nation
What is really wrong with you? How and when has the Nation ever been racist?
Ye, why am I even wasting my time? You're probably just another raving idiot.
Idiot, it's sarcasm, the point being, if The Nation is saying the same thing as Coevett, and The Nation isn't racist (which it isn't), then neither is Coevett for saying it.
So yeah, why are you wasting your time?, but then again "you're probably just another raving idiot" lol.
Physician here (not in sports medicine, just a lowly pulmonologist). The only performance benefits I could foresee from taking systemic glucocorticoids like triamcinolone would be the anti-inflammatory effects? Medina Spirit, the horse that won the Kentucky Derby in 2021, was busted for being given a different GC (betamethasone), in all likelihood for similar purpose.
Maybe there are some theoretical metabolic effect like increasing lipolysis (breakdown of stored fat into free fatty acids) and increasing skeletal muscle glycogenolysis (breakdown of stored glycogen into glucose) to keep your plasma glucose levels up, and thus keep you from "bonking". BUT that would all be at the cost of many countervailing side effects after repeated use over even a modest time frame. For example, I don't think of triamcinolone (or any other GC) as helping with weight loss: in fact weight *gain* is a well known side effect of chronic GC use, even at relatively low daily doses for several months at at time. GCs tend to make people retain fluid due to some mineralocorticoid effect, which stimulates the kidneys to hang onto more sodium and water. Same thing with effects on muscle strength: if anything GCs are known to cause muscle *weakness* -- just google "steroid myopathy".
Whole thing seems bizarre. Other than being cheap and easily accessible, GCs are inherently catabolic and inherently have vanishingly low affinity for the androgen/estrogen receptors so there's no little to no anabolic effects. I just don't see how there's much performance upside here.
I just love the fact nearly every doctor in the history of forever is this ignorant, but has no issue giving their opinion.
LetsRun forum in general has some of the least informed takes on peds. Y'all are fkn clueless.
Exactly is Paula was doping she is just one. We don't have an army on EPO
As for this 'new' drug. Its obvious that they have been using it for years and only started getting busted for it
Exactly? How about Kelly Holmes' blood values? It's never just one. Nor two. You and Coevett like to point your dirty fingers at Africans and "forget" the filth you support at home.
So we have 2 with suspect blood values in over 20 years & nobody busted. 1 actually as never seen anything on Holmes. Add 1 back in Farah and where did he go to do his doping undetected!
vs 100+ in last few years for Kenya
How many more would there be if they had proper testing 5+ years ago. Ethiopia is still where Kenya was 10 years go.