Lets be honest here we don't tune in to watch the wheelchair athletes. Its a running event accommodating wheelchair athletes. Its just woke to same they are treating marcel hug Equal to Kip.
The elites won't be able to call it out incase they get cancelled.
The proof will be in the elite line ups going forward. Which you can imagine will be pretty thin. But hey the bright side is maybe local athletes will earn some cash.
I just can't bring myself to care about prize money at any race from your local Marathon to the world Marathon majors. I view these races as for the masses, those of us who start and aim for a 3-hour or 4 hour or 5 hour finish. We Are who coming to cities and spend money while the pros get comped and paid to be there.
I personally don't care if Marathon stopped giving any money to the winners and just made it about the athletic achievement. Sports are ruined by money from baseball to football to basketball. Keep them amateur and keep professional money out.
also, there was that whole Kimetto / Mutai collision thing a few years back.
Can you elaborate on that?
What am I missing?
I realize you made a typo but I still don't know the backstory?
Don't know how we forgot about this. It was pretty interesting. Back in 2012, Geoffrey Mutai and Dennis Kimetto had broken everyone else at the Berlin Marathon. But rather than race it in to the finish, they slowed down and crossed together, Mutai just ahead of Kimetto.
Why did that happen? Mutai was in line to win the WMM $500,000 prize if he won the race. And Mutai and Kimetto are training partners (Mutai basically "discovered" Kimetto) so Kimetto let Mutai win.
cmon rojo. racism is a stretch. has one more person other than serious runners bothered to follow the wmm? or even bothered to watch more than 5 minutes of a marathon on TV? very unlikely. I don't understand how sponsors reap benefits from large sponsorships besides as a tax break.
I've followed running for over 50 years and have lost interest with all the little gadgets added to hope that kids will follow the sport. Get rid of the flying V pacers, wave lights and things that artificially deflate times. These things are close to the use of steroids in baseball to boost HR's.
I agree with this. The African runners just aren't good stories and they don't sell to the general public which is where the money comes from.
I'm not sure who's fault that is but it is true. I run but don't really follow the pros all that deep. The few pro athletes I care about have good stories. Muir being a vet that runs. Molly overcoming her eating disorder, qualifying in her first ever marathon, then winning a medal. Rupp and his weird Salazar relationship. Meb finally bringing Boston back to an American at a time only the women were projected to have a chance. Desiree and her personality.
Even Kipch9ge and that weird artificial sub 2 attempt just doesn't do it for me
The LAST thing the big marathons need is elite runners. The big 'races' aren't really races at all, but are more 'festival' in nature anymore. Let's say you have a field of 10K-30K. How many of those runners will know, see or care about a guy at the front running 2:02 versus 2:20? The answer is NONE OF THEM. NOBODY CARES. Would there be fewer runners if truly elite runners aren't at the front? NO. Why give so much money away that in no way actually supports the races?
Running needs to be more like road cycling, in which you have a set of UCI elite tours in Europe that draw the best riders and teams in the world to a small number of high-profile stage races. Those teams support development of elite cycling. Then, at least in the US, there is amateur racing in a category system where aspiring warriors can clang it out. Then, there are cycling events, typically centuries and double centuries, that draw huge numbers of riders and provide support, but there is no timing, no 'racing', they are 'events', or even 'festivals', but not races. Centuries are great and I don't understand why running events aren't reimagined to be more like that.
American running is simply not dependent on elites in any way. As long as running events can draw the FOMO Insta crowd and create the 'festival' atmosphere, they'll be just fine.
Wuhht?? I don't set my DVR to watch wheelchair racers or some instagrammer plod along
Can we just make it clear that this DOES NOT HELP the wheelchair athletes? They are still getting paid the exact same amount as before.
They are actually getting paid $30K more in total. But trying to sell this as "equality" when you cut the runners prize money by $450K and pocket the $420K difference is one of the most pathetic PR spins ive ever seen. And retroactively applying this with races already run is insanity. Kipchoge is probably way too nice (and rich at this point) to make a stink, but the 2nd-5th runners in this series are being screwed financially and I would be livid if I were them
Wheelchair racers deserve respect and acknowledgment. But I have a hard time being convinced that the toll a marathon takes on their bodies is anywhere near the toll on an able bodied runner such that the prize money should be the same. In 2021 when Chicago was the day before Boston, wheelchair athletes were able to do both, competitively. I know a few runners who made the trip, but they were more or less hobbling their way through Boston nowhere near their normal race times. Also, on an annual basis you can see the top wheelchair runners doing all of the world marathon major races. You will never see that with a runner (and remaining in the hunt for the first place victory). This is not to diminish a wheelchair racer's ability or performance. I just don't think they should be financially rewarded for their performance to the same level as an able bodied runner.
The ramifications for the WMM races and attracting able bodied runners could be significant. If more middle eastern countries and various European races are willing to plunk down six figure appearance fees on top of six figures in prize money, and can guarantee cool, dry conditions, then the WMM are going to have to rethink their approach to attracting the top elite runners. First place in Berlin and London is not much. I think base in Berlin was 40,000 Euro, and London is 55,000? They are known for shelling out significant appearance fees (I think Berlin is more likely to pay for 3-4 really big names and the rest are there to make a name for themselves with a potentially top 10 race time for that year, and London will pay for every recent Olympic medalist and top performer over the last 2 years). But imagine a younger Kipchoge - would he rather go to London where he can be guaranteed $500,000 just to toe the line, with a potential $55,000 prize for winning .... or receive the same appearance fee from Dubai but with a potential $200,000 prize for winning the race? That potential "$50,000" prize for a WMM championship is no longer going to be a big carrot to chase.
Wow what a joke. Total bush league move to cut the prize money mid-series. Its one thing to reduce during the next cycle, another entirely to slash after the races have already been run. Hope Kipchoge gives them the middle finger and goes to Valencia or somewhere else next year.
Valencia should partner up with Amsterdam, Doha, and a few others and create a new circuit. It wouldn't be too tough to match the WMM prize money at this point and draw the best athletes.
I support disabled people and their athletic goals, and understand how footraces are a good venue for them to also share. But to cut the runner prize for parity, instead or raising the wheelchair prize, is just penny pinching with a PR spin.
Agree 100%. I loved this line in our article, "The World Marathon Majors need to decide their path. Do they want to be a truly elite footrace and world-class sporting event that fans care about or double down on the path of trying to woke-wash away their stinginess?"
Our web guy who we rarely have read articles came up with that line when we had him read it over.
Props to new WMM CEO Dawna Stone for calling me yesterday and explaining the changes when I reached out for comment. She said they're not saving money with this move that they are going to redirect the money to some initiative to promote wheelchair racing. While I would disagree with slashing the payouts to runners to promote wheelchair racing if this is what they are really doing they should announce this new initiative immediately.
We may have Dawna on the podcast to discuss more what they are thinking.
Wheelchair racers deserve respect and acknowledgment. But I have a hard time being convinced that the toll a marathon takes on their bodies is anywhere near the toll on an able bodied runner such that the prize money should be the same. In 2021 when Chicago was the day before Boston, wheelchair athletes were able to do both, competitively. I know a few runners who made the trip, but they were more or less hobbling their way through Boston nowhere near their normal race times. Also, on an annual basis you can see the top wheelchair runners doing all of the world marathon major races. You will never see that with a runner (and remaining in the hunt for the first place victory). This is not to diminish a wheelchair racer's ability or performance. I just don't think they should be financially rewarded for their performance to the same level as an able bodied runner.
The ramifications for the WMM races and attracting able bodied runners could be significant. If more middle eastern countries and various European races are willing to plunk down six figure appearance fees on top of six figures in prize money, and can guarantee cool, dry conditions, then the WMM are going to have to rethink their approach to attracting the top elite runners. First place in Berlin and London is not much. I think base in Berlin was 40,000 Euro, and London is 55,000? They are known for shelling out significant appearance fees (I think Berlin is more likely to pay for 3-4 really big names and the rest are there to make a name for themselves with a potentially top 10 race time for that year, and London will pay for every recent Olympic medalist and top performer over the last 2 years). But imagine a younger Kipchoge - would he rather go to London where he can be guaranteed $500,000 just to toe the line, with a potential $55,000 prize for winning .... or receive the same appearance fee from Dubai but with a potential $200,000 prize for winning the race? That potential "$50,000" prize for a WMM championship is no longer going to be a big carrot to chase.
On the wheelchair discussion, I'll throw in that the level of competition for wheelchair isn't as much as runners. Very few people go all in to compete in wheelchair racing. Imagine if races started paying out equal prize money for masters runners as overall. There aren't a lot of masters runners still going all in compared to the depth of runners in their 20's and 30's.
And the discussion about appearance fees. I hate that that's the way things have gone. It's no longer about performance, it's about paying someone who once ran fast a long time ago and they're still getting the money even though younger unknown people are beating them. I know that Kipchoge took most of the Berlin money. Kiera D'Amato didn't get anything to go to Berlin this year, and they only pay 5 deep I believe, Kiera was 6th at Berlin with her 2:21. So Kiera didn't make any money whatsoever from running Berlin. Maybe she got some sort of bonus from Nike for a top 10 finish at a WMM, but it is reasonable to think she already met some criteria for a bonus this year and didn't get anything additional for Berlin. So she ran a very fast race for zero dollars.
It doesn't freaking matter. In the general sense, wheelchair racing is pretty much as appealing to tune-in to watch as footracing over the marathon distance. The racing is promoted and presented with poor production value to a miniscule audience. Outside of a couple dozen die-hard fanatics on sites like this one, nobody sees any issue with this move. I'm a lifelong fan and enjoy watching marathons when they're presented well and have no reaction to Kipchoge missing out on more prize money except maybe a shrug of the shoulders. You don't demand more respect or income, you have to command it. The sport's collective participants aren't coming up with workable innovation to improve its appeal to spectators, including the Letsrun cognoscenti.
The not well thought out out virtue signaling really bothers me. Trying to stage 4 sporting events at once is a huge mistake, particularly when the fan base for two of those sports doesn't exist.
But let me make a point that I haven't seen pointed out anywhere.
Have the WMMs considered that it could easily be argued that their move to slash the series prize $ for runners but raise it for wheelchair racers is racist and a sign of white / Western privilege?
Perhaps they should since they are so worried about virtue signaling . It's a direct weatlh transfer from black athletes to white athletes.
The reality is wheelchair racing is almost 100% dominated by rich, white majority countries and running is dominated by poor, black majority countries.
How many people in wheelchairs in Kenya can afford a $25,000 chair?
At the most recent Paralympics, guess how many of the wheelchair marathon participants were black? Answer: Zero men. 1 woman.
It would be great to see the African athletes stand up for themselves and raise this as an issue and see how the WMMs respond.
look we get it wasn’t the right move but you sound like a right lunatic now
Our sport is a f**ked up disjointed mess and that is why it is failing. Worlds every other year. The Olympics getting hyped over Worlds. The Diamond League being nearly impossible for casual fans to follow or to understand how it is scored. Top athletes ducking each other constantly. Half-filled stadiums everywhere. Distance stars with careers that last only 2-3 years. No discernable team or club structure for fans to get behind. World Athletics being some sort of loose management that allows countless other entities to put on events, series, etc. with no unifying structure.
Imagine that the NFL worked in this manner. The Dallas Cowboys jettison 1/2 of their roster after each season and only keep popular starters on 1-2 year league minimum contracts offering bonuses only for undefeated records and a Super Bowl win. They choose only to play 6-8 games a season, some against college teams, and two of those are intrasquad scrimmages with no contact. They tell you that there will be games against the Eagles and the Giants this year but, they cannot provide a date or location until 72 hours prior to game time. They will also play the Commanders in D.C., but only if Dak Prescott is 100% healthy and Washington is willing to pay for all of the Cowboy's travel expenses. If not, the game will go on but the Commanders will match up against Towson State.
Just to keep you on your toes, they randomly change their logo and uniform colors every year. This year, Dallas will wear grey/yellow jerseys and the helmets will feature a cursive "D" instead of the familiar star. There is no Super Bowl this season but, it will be played next year on an April date in Charlotte, NC to coincide with a large high school football convention that attracts a large number of passionate scholastic ADs and coaches. Please note that no Super Bowl will be held in 2024 so that there is no conflict with the USFL Championship game. The NFL will hold a flag football tournament to determine which franchise will represent the NFL at the USFL game in Birmingham, AL in July 2024 just prior to the start of the NFL season.
When Kipchoge is done racing, would he consider leading a new unionization effort in elite track / road racing (it might be easier to start with just the latter)? I don't think there's really anyone else with enough visibility/respect to get another attempt off the ground, so it would be an interesting way for him to consider giving back and adding a new chapter to his legacy.
They could negotiate appearance fees / championship payouts, have their own independent drug testing, limit the influence of brokers/agents, and more. There may not as much money to go around in professional track and road racing as other pro sports, but it's safe to say the athletes are getting less of whatever there is compared to other, unionized pro sports. There's also still plenty of big orgs like the IOC and IAAF/WA that hold unchallengeable power over athletes. WMM wouldn't be able to pull stunts like this one if they had a CBA with the runners.
Honolulu drastically cut the prize money last year and I think the result was great. Only a couple of pros showed up to stomp everybody, but the rest of the top finishers were just local runners and tourists. I'm just not sure what is added by having a pack of anorexic pros fly in a run a completely different race way in front.
The World Marathon Majors need to decide their path. Do they want to be a truly elite foot race and world-class sporting event that fans care about or double down on the path of trying to woke-wash away their stinginess?
What are your suggestions for popularizing "truly elite foot racing" that would encourage sponsors to invest/reinvest in the sport?
My friends that are avid sports fans, many of whom also run recreationally, have a vague notion of what Kipchoge did and that the marathon world record was broken. However, they literally can't name one current American distance runner, let alone any of the world's top international runners/marathoners. They might be able to associate the name "Kipchoge" with running, but I'm not sure any of them could actually name him if asked. They are more cognizant of Fan Controlled Football and #MACaction than they are of World Marathon Majors. I don't think this is solely an American phenomenon either.
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