I was just reading about this on /r/WorkReform. Thoughts?
The idea that minimum wage should be $30 an hour is stupidity. Money does not just magically appear it is funded through our tax dollars which means people like myself who worked there behind off to get well beyond $100,000 a year typically get destroyed during tax season. I always listen to people complain about the financial position they are in. If you want more money do the requirements to get more money. The number of people that are too busy to spend a couple of hours a night knocking out a college degree is mind boggling but they have plenty of extra free time to go sit at the bar and get drunk every night. I knocked out a bachelors and masters while on active duty. I am working on a third degree as we speak so is my wife. Look more money should be reserved for people who have specialized skills to get more money it should not be reserved for a job that requires zero skill. Anyone who thinks minimum wage should be nearly $65,000 a year is a moron.
You have spread tow common misconceptions.
1. First, money does appear out of thin air in the US. The entire planet is mostly dependent on our dollar. The world goes as the dollar goes, which is to say, where do you think we get all this money? We make the rules. At least up to this point. Dollars are not based on gold. It based on the good faith backing of the US and A and a lot of inane conjiggering by the fed. So, in short we can kind of do what we want (for now, China notwithstanding).
2. Its so short sighted to just say every person needs to go to college and become someone. That's so played. First, our entire fabric would collapse if we didnt have ditch diggers (to quote the great Judge Smales). Literally...we need people to work crazy hard unpleasant jobs so we can all go on bragging about how great our country is, go on vacation etc... We cant have all "doctors and lawyers". Not to mention, there are more people than you think that literally cant better themselves. They have low IQ, developmental disability, or physical disability. Why throw all these people out to make yourself feel better about being Mr Hardworker/got a degree? Its foolish. You want these people, you NEED these people working these jobs. Dont wish horrible things on them to make yourself feel better. A Moron is someone who thinks they need 3 degrees to make 65K! 65k is not a lot at all.
Its just a weird wiring to wish poverty on everyone who isnt as successful as you? If you work 40-60hrs a week keeping the lights of our country on, why not have enough for a small house, middling car, food and medication? Is that so bad.
Minimum wage is a horrible poverty reduction strategy because it is just a form of price fixing that wishes away the realities of market equilibrium. The negative externalities it spins off far outweigh the benefits to the individuals for whom the program is meant.
If poverty is the problem we, as a society, are trying to solve, the most rational solution is to scrap all the various and sundry federal and state level poverty reduction programs and just institute a UBI. No means testing, everyone over 18 gets a monthly payment that is suffice to pay for rent/utilities and enough protein, vitamins and carbs to live in the cheapest city in America. Every dollar you earn over that amount is taxable and the standard deduction is eliminated and replaced by the UBI payment.
That program would, by definition, eliminate poverty. However, it would not eliminate mental illness, addiction, and lack of self control which are the root causes of most impoverishment. Those things cannot be fixed by government and we should all be leery when a politician says otherwise.
Unfortunately, a program like this will likely never happen because the right is too sanctimonious about the evils of socialism and the left doesn’t want to give up the graft and built-in voter base that the current paternalistic welfare regime provides them.
Inflation adjusted minimum wage is about $26. Given the recent surge in inflation, $30 is probably not far off. Income inequity and related poverty have been a bit like the frog in the pot of boiling water. Wage stagnation has been ongoing for almost four decades. But it has not reached a breaking point because people first adjusted by moving from a single bread winner household to a double income household as being a necessity. Then, in the 1990s under Clinton, the Fed made it possible to bridge the gap between stagnant incomes and the cost of living by making borrowing cheap. The neo-liberal project of offshoring production also helped mitigate stagnant wages by keeping consumer good prices relatively low (inflation was minimal from 2000 to present). And most recently, the gig economy, etsy, ebay, etc. offer people chances to make money on the side to supplement their stagnant incomes.
But the cost of housing, college education, healthcare, childcare, etc. have just kept rising and rising. Without radical investments in public housing, medicare for all, childcare, etc. even a substantial raise in the minimum wage would do little to put people back into a position of economic security.
How is minimum wage free stuff? You have to work an hour to get an hour's wage. What sort of "man" doesn't believe in the concept of maximizing income?
How is minimum wage free stuff? You have to work an hour to get an hour's wage. What sort of "man" doesn't believe in the concept of maximizing income?
Why is this ONLY a democrat issue? I have never heard in my life a Republican bitchin* about his 'minimum wage'. Yet Democrats can't shut up about it. Do you know why?
Most of them are on it.....
"We have all the degrees. We are super smart. Red Staters are dumb"
F A C T S Low producing voters with household incomes of less than $50,000 in 2019 broke for Biden by 55 to 43 percent — a 12 point margin, compared to 8 four years ago. This helped overcome Trump’s gains among households with incomes above $100,000
If everyone has more money, and it costs more to produce goods, then wouldn’t prices rise and purchasing power decrease leaving everyone back where they started 🧐
Even if other people’s paypackets remain the same then minimum wage workers would probably just be replaced with automation
But we have inflation anyway. Things are getting more and more expensive and salaries need to rise accordingly to maintain purchasing power. People are looking for more pay to meet the increasing costs of living and are being told they can't because that will cause further inflation. Something will have to give.
If minimum wage is an inflation risk, why aren't multi million dollar salaries? If senior management get an extra few million sent their way, why do people not fret it will cause the cost of production to increase in the same way they do when it's the lowest income bracket? Why are people arguing to restrict or abolish the minimum wage, instead of limiting senior pay? If they were consistent, both have the same effect. It's a matter of choice, not economics.
We're seeing a large part of our inflation right now because of the lack of work people did during covid. A ton of people got their free money for not working, so less stuff was produced, less stuff got done. Now there's shortages of almost everything and huge backlogs of shipping orders trying to catch back up. Now imagine if you had to pay everyone more money, everything would go up even further. So instead of the typical 2% inflation we normally see, we're seeing 5%-10% because of the lack of covid productivity. Now if you also made minimum wage go up to $30 we'd see inflation even more than 10%. The only thing that keeps inflation down is more people being more productive. This means there's more end results (products and services) to go around for everyone and that drops the prices. If there's less to go around the prices go up, if it costs more to provide the goods and services (salaries are forced to be higher) then the prices go up.
The idea that minimum wage should be $30 an hour is stupidity. Money does not just magically appear it is funded through our tax dollars which means people like myself who worked there behind off to get well beyond $100,000 a year typically get destroyed during tax season. I always listen to people complain about the financial position they are in. If you want more money do the requirements to get more money. The number of people that are too busy to spend a couple of hours a night knocking out a college degree is mind boggling but they have plenty of extra free time to go sit at the bar and get drunk every night. I knocked out a bachelors and masters while on active duty. I am working on a third degree as we speak so is my wife. Look more money should be reserved for people who have specialized skills to get more money it should not be reserved for a job that requires zero skill. Anyone who thinks minimum wage should be nearly $65,000 a year is a moron.
You have spread tow common misconceptions.
1. First, money does appear out of thin air in the US. The entire planet is mostly dependent on our dollar. The world goes as the dollar goes, which is to say, where do you think we get all this money? We make the rules. At least up to this point. Dollars are not based on gold. It based on the good faith backing of the US and A and a lot of inane conjiggering by the fed. So, in short we can kind of do what we want (for now, China notwithstanding).
2. Its so short sighted to just say every person needs to go to college and become someone. That's so played. First, our entire fabric would collapse if we didnt have ditch diggers (to quote the great Judge Smales). Literally...we need people to work crazy hard unpleasant jobs so we can all go on bragging about how great our country is, go on vacation etc... We cant have all "doctors and lawyers". Not to mention, there are more people than you think that literally cant better themselves. They have low IQ, developmental disability, or physical disability. Why throw all these people out to make yourself feel better about being Mr Hardworker/got a degree? Its foolish. You want these people, you NEED these people working these jobs. Dont wish horrible things on them to make yourself feel better. A Moron is someone who thinks they need 3 degrees to make 65K! 65k is not a lot at all.
Its just a weird wiring to wish poverty on everyone who isnt as successful as you? If you work 40-60hrs a week keeping the lights of our country on, why not have enough for a small house, middling car, food and medication? Is that so bad.
You made zero points. I did not say you need 3 degrees to make $65,000 a year. I said I am close to the completion of my third degree and I a make well over $65,000 a year. I also did not wish poverty on everyone I simply indicated income should be based on how hard you have worked and what specialized skills you have. Someone that is laboring at a minimum wage job working side by side with a bunch of high schoolers should not be entitled to high income. The luxuries of life need to be worked for they should by no means be given.
The idea that minimum wage should be $30 an hour is stupidity. Money does not just magically appear it is funded through our tax dollars which means people like myself who worked there behind off to get well beyond $100,000 a year typically get destroyed during tax season. I always listen to people complain about the financial position they are in. If you want more money do the requirements to get more money. The number of people that are too busy to spend a couple of hours a night knocking out a college degree is mind boggling but they have plenty of extra free time to go sit at the bar and get drunk every night. I knocked out a bachelors and masters while on active duty. I am working on a third degree as we speak so is my wife. Look more money should be reserved for people who have specialized skills to get more money it should not be reserved for a job that requires zero skill. Anyone who thinks minimum wage should be nearly $65,000 a year is a moron.
You have spread tow common misconceptions.
We cant have all "doctors and lawyers". Not to mention, there are more people than you think that literally cant better themselves. They have low IQ, developmental disability, or physical disability.
I forgot to mention there is a number of programs for these particular individuals that my work funds. They offer them jobs and also offer them housing in a group environment. I am going to be realistic and say just like not everyone is meant to be an Olympic Runner, not everyone is meant to have high income. This is the reason why there are local 5k's and why there is an economic class of society. The people who have the ability want to have something to work for goals in life. Some people as you mentioned do not have the mental development to understand goals and this is not me being mean it is a fact.
Review the history of U.S. minimum wage. Minimum wage has been something advocated by labor unions. Why do labor unions advocate for minimum wage? Labor unions advocate for minimum wage so their skilled workers will earn a pay increase every time minimum wage is increased. Increase minimum wage by 100% to $30,000/ hr. then skilled labor like airline pilots, electricians, jet engine mechanics, law enforcement, plumbers, registered nurses and school teachers will demand far more than $30 per hour.
For over 100 years, U.S. corporations have moved jobs outside of U.S. border. If minimum wage doubled, would more or less jobs be sent overseas?
There are robot/technology substitutes for labor. Often the cost of robot/technology makes replacement of labor impractical. Raising minimum wage makes robot/technology more attractive for corporations.
What would prohibit landlords from doubling rent? Some landlords may not want to double rent, but labor costs for landlords would force significant increase in rent.
There will be a day, I am sure, about 25 years from now, minimum wage in U.S. will be about $30/hour. Now? Today? Bad idea.
Sure, force me to pay everyone $30 an hour for the company I own.
My response will be laying everyone off except for my key workers. There is no way my customers can afford that.
I don’t think some of you have any idea the cost associated with that. I have to match Social Security, pay 10% in unemployment insurance, pay $14 per hundred for Workmen’s Comp.
So even before talking about benefits, we’re talking about 30% being added for every hundred my employees earn.
I am OK with this if I can pass on the cost to my customers, but there is no way I can. The same is true for any company.
So, the end result will be all of these companies folding because nobody’s buying anything and then nobody has a job.
McDonald pulls in ~5 billion for killing people all over the world. Nice work if you can get it.
The true cost of the burger shake and fries has to include the excess deaths, cancer, heart, stroke and diabetic rehab, joint replacement and disability, dementia care and depression uptick. That cost adds up.
If the minimum wage were set to zero or infinity, the burger joints loses revenue; however nebulous the math of wage hikes one thing is clear: America would come out way ahead when the joint is closed.
McDonald pulls in ~5 billion for killing people all over the world. Nice work if you can get it.
The true cost of the burger shake and fries has to include the excess deaths, cancer, heart, stroke and diabetic rehab, joint replacement and disability, dementia care and depression uptick. That cost adds up.
If the minimum wage were set to zero or infinity, the burger joints loses revenue; however nebulous the math of wage hikes one thing is clear: America would come out way ahead when the joint is closed.
Are you suggesting taxing the negative externalities? ;)
But we have inflation anyway. Things are getting more and more expensive and salaries need to rise accordingly to maintain purchasing power. People are looking for more pay to meet the increasing costs of living and are being told they can't because that will cause further inflation. Something will have to give.
If minimum wage is an inflation risk, why aren't multi million dollar salaries? If senior management get an extra few million sent their way, why do people not fret it will cause the cost of production to increase in the same way they do when it's the lowest income bracket? Why are people arguing to restrict or abolish the minimum wage, instead of limiting senior pay? If they were consistent, both have the same effect. It's a matter of choice, not economics.
We're seeing a large part of our inflation right now because of the lack of work people did during covid. A ton of people got their free money for not working, so less stuff was produced, less stuff got done. Now there's shortages of almost everything and huge backlogs of shipping orders trying to catch back up. Now imagine if you had to pay everyone more money, everything would go up even further. So instead of the typical 2% inflation we normally see, we're seeing 5%-10% because of the lack of covid productivity. Now if you also made minimum wage go up to $30 we'd see inflation even more than 10%. The only thing that keeps inflation down is more people being more productive. This means there's more end results (products and services) to go around for everyone and that drops the prices. If there's less to go around the prices go up, if it costs more to provide the goods and services (salaries are forced to be higher) then the prices go up.
It's obvious the pandemic has had an impact on this. Productivity rolled down and then demand ramped back up massively. But that dip and surge happens whether people were paid COVID money or not. There were restrictions on people's lives that made work difficult, and they were compensated for it.
But in order to fulfil any backlog in demand, not increasing wages isn't going to motivate people to be more productive. Asking people to work harder while their wages are eroded by inflation isn't going to go down well.
Or just freeze prices, I got my first Comic Book when they were 15 Cents, Last year they were $4.00, I used to get the Lunch special that had 2 slices of Pizza, And a Drink or Frostee for under One Dollar, Now a slice of Pizza alone is $3.00-$5.00 Dollars, I used to get A Candy Bar for a Dime, Now they are over 2 Dollars, I read in 1931 gas was 17 Cents a Gallon, Now the National Average is over 4 Dollars and over 6 Dollars where I live (Southern California)
I make 19 Dollars an Hour, if Prices were what the used to be 50 years ago I would be okay, I would argue when Minimum wage was $3.00's an hour, your money would go further than $15-20 an hour would get you now.
So they should either freeze prices or give Salary Increases that would go up proportionally at the same rate with price increases.
The more they print money, the less the Money is worth, That is why I hope we (USA) lose World Reserve Currency Status, So they wont be able to raise the Debt Ceiling and just print money, Much of which goes to things no one would vote for, Or they could just get rid of taxes, but people would be required to use the money for Gofundme and Charities, So that ALL the Money would go to things that person wants.
There is hope They say if Saudi Arabia agrees with China to have its oil payed for in Yuan, The USA could lose World Reserve Currency, And leaders of those 2 Countries are set to meet in May after Ramadan to try to get a Deal. If they could help us get rid of The World Reserve Currency Status and have the USA not able to just print Money, Everyone in the USA would be happy, EXCEPT the Politicians who want to just print money and make Inflation rise, as is happening now with Food and Gas prices and everything else.
