Transgender law center memo. They know they are losing the sports debate.

NotPC wrote:

plasticsurgeon wrote:

I don't understand why it matters who is fighting a particular battle, as long as he or she argues logically and truthfully. It seems rather simplistic to judge truth by the color and sex of the individual making a case on its behalf.

Yeah, lots of white people fought for civil rights in the 60s, an entire nation of mostly white people fought to end slavery.. as long as people are arguing for something that is morally right, race and gender shouldn't be an issue. Such a horrible way to see the world through nothing but a racial lens.

Exactly. These so-called anti-racists think the color of your skin or your sex can disqualify you from having the right to an opinion on something.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

maxamillion wrote:

The women at Penn were going to boycott their last meet, but were afraid they wouldnt be allowed to swim at conference championships.

So I guess that the issue isn't that important to them then.

There are 224K female athletes competing in N.C.A.A. sports. Why is this small group of athletes expected to be the only ones to make a sacrifice? And for non-seniors, they might be suspended by the N.C.A.A. and not be allowed to swim next year.

and as i said before - it just isn't that important to them then. If you believe you are right then you need to make the sacrifice.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

There are 224K female athletes competing in N.C.A.A. sports. Why is this small group of athletes expected to be the only ones to make a sacrifice? And for non-seniors, they might be suspended by the N.C.A.A. and not be allowed to swim next year.

I doubt that Penn swimmers will boycott. Nevertheless, it would be an absolute PR disaster for the NCAA and the transgender community if the boycotting athletes got suspended or barred from competing.

This is a great comment and I think it points out the error in the previous poster's argument:

The above poster says that they are able to prove that Letsrun's focus on this issue is transphobic by, primarily, two pieces of evidence: Firstly, by looking at the number of threads about trans athletes in women's sports vs. the number of threads about women's sports themselves (which shows that posters care more about trans people being denied access to sport than about the sport they are claiming to protect.) Secondly, that Letsrun is a bastion of old white men who regularly post transphobic things. I don't know how this poster can say either of these things without data to back them up. Do you have data on the number of threads posted on here daily or monthly or yearly on those two topics to compare? Do you have data on the average number of posts per thread on these topics? The average word count in each response? How do you know that threads about trans athletes are given more attention or get more traffic? Or is it just something 'that's easy to tell'? (Which means you really have no verifiable proof beyond your own perception and because it is convenient for your argument) Secondly, do you have the demographics for users on this site? How do you know most users are white old men? How do you know that a majority of them are responsible for the transphobic remarks? Maybe it could be a small handful of users posting a lot about the same topic? How do you know the people who posted about those topics are white? Does every post come with a racial tag attached to the username? It seems to me that any of this would be hard for you to determine, given that this site is primarily anonymous and users can't always be identified.

Now, let's look at the motivation you assign to the posters commenting on this issue: You say that that the fact that this is being discussed is further proof that there's rampant transphobia on this website. Well, how do you know the intentions of people, (whose identity is anonymous and who you've also never met) through an online post? People are very complicated and without talking to someone and knowing them at all, you claim to be the ultimate interpreter of their intentions? That's a pretty laughable claim. There's another thing you're missing here. Like you said, context matters, so let's look at the context of these postings: The running community, and Letsrun in particular, has an almost puritanical obsession about the 'purity' or 'fairness' of the sport. Love it or hate it, it's part of the culture - running isn't like the NFL or the NBA, performances and their context in history matter to many people who follow this sport. Many running fans view transgender athletes in women's sport as not an issue of gender or identity, but as an issue of fairness. So let's look at the number of threads about transgender athletes vs. the number of threads about other issues of fairness in running (which is a more fair comparison if we want to see how much attention the trans issue is getting vs other comparable issues.) How many threads are there about doping? About marathon cheats? About super shoes? About course length? So no, I don't think Letsrun users have put a particularly and specially targeted trans athletes - it is given as much attention as other issues of fairness in sport.

I don't know if you see the irony, but your whole postings reek of a zealous pseudo-religious fundamentalism, wherein you have special knowledge to see evil and insidious intent where most people cannot, even in light of a much more reasonable and obvious explanation being provided. It sounds like the Christian moms who scream about Harry Potter being satanic and JK Rowling having written the novels while possessed. Most people can see that Harry Potter is really just a kid's story. So is Letsrun really overrun with people who are conspiring against trans people and laugh gleefully when their rights are denied, or are people really just concerned with seeing that everyone gets a fair shot on a level playing field? As SO MANY posters have said. It's not an issue of denying trans individuals respect or affirmation or acceptance - everyone deserves those things, especially trans folks. But you keep talking as if that's not good enough for you: no measure too extreme in the name of acceptance. We ought to burn the books, lest they lead our children to demonic sorcery, right? Well - I think the only difference is that your god is critical theory and my lord do you worship with intense fervor.

OozmaKappa wrote:

Ironic. You come across as pretty sexist, racist, and even ageist with l your tirading against old white males. I dont think you deserve the assumption of good faith.

I don't care.

Not doing all that stuff.

Letrsun is old and white. And transphobic. Demanding proof down to the word count is a good way to try to waste my time.

Cheesy MF. "Intense fervor" do you think you sound smart?

OozmaKappa wrote: If someone does dislike Shapiro to a point where they view anyone associated with him negatively, that indicates that they probably believe a lot of things which just aren't true, including not just things about Shapiro himself but also their general worldview.

😂😂😂😂

As a liberal, female former marathon runner, I can say that I am completely against those born with XY chromosomes being allowed to compete head-to-head in sports with those of us born with XX chromosomes. I don't care who or what you identify as/with in other aspects of your life, but women have had to work too long and too hard for equality in sports to allow this to happen. Unfortunately, as is being pointed out here, only currently competing female athletes are going to be able to influence a change. So far, most seem to be pretty quiet, maybe because the vast majority aren't directly affected. Also, as other posters have mentioned, there is a stifling cancel culture voice in our colleges that is predominately spearheaded by young women. The vast majority of these women have never competed past rec-league soccer level, so they are completely accepting of biological men competing against biological women.

ritchie ritch wrote:

OozmaKappa wrote: If someone does dislike Shapiro to a point where they view anyone associated with him negatively, that indicates that they probably believe a lot of things which just aren't true, including not just things about Shapiro himself but also their general worldview.

😂😂😂😂

😂

I am another generally liberal female runner who is opposed to trans athletes competing in sports against women. And I say this as someone who has two trans co-workers (one MTF and one FTM), who I consider to be friends. I simply don't think it is fair for these MTF athletes to compete against XX women. If they "must" compete, they can compete either in the open division or they can have their own category. I think Caster Semenya is also at an unfair advantage, but that is a slightly different case.

I don't think this is only an issue for NCAA and the Olympics. Honestly, I would be upset even if such an athlete took me off the age-group podium at a local Turkey Trot.

maxamillion wrote:

The women at Penn were going to boycott their last meet, but were afraid they wouldnt be allowed to swim at conference championships.

So I guess that the issue isn't that important to them then.

Fear of retribution does not mean that it wasn't important to them.

Letrsun is old and white. And transphobic. Demanding proof down to the word count is a good way to try to waste my time.

It's transphobic to believe that allowing male bodies to compete in women's sports is detrimental to women's sports?

Hey, can't win on the merits of your argument, label away

carmine9 wrote:

Letrsun is old and white. And transphobic. Demanding proof down to the word count is a good way to try to waste my time.

It's transphobic to believe that allowing male bodies to compete in women's sports is detrimental to women's sports?

Hey, can't win on the merits of your argument, label away

You know I'm right.

carmine9 wrote:

Letrsun is old and white. And transphobic.

Yeah. I'll be laughing for sure where half the women in some heat of the olympic trials for swimming has visible penis showing through their suits.

Devastating post. I don't expect any kind of reasonable rebuttal to it.

Yeah obviously some women are up in arms about it! I literally said they will take the lead on this!

Old White Conservatives, which we all KNOW comprise a large part of this site, have a f*cking image problem because of the last 20 years of opposing every single meaningful change for every single gender or LGBT group, no matter what it is. Abortion, gay marriage, don't ask don't tell, transgender military service, transgender people using bathrooms they want, any civil rights stuff, and now "CRT" aka the teaching about slavery in history class. This next thing is not about caring about womens sports, which you don't watch, but about your idealogical aversion to all things transgender.

That image problem is why the spearhead of this fight will be a college athlete, with the right motivations, not a Newt Gingrich look alike.

Gd this isnt hard to understand.

Every single thing you mentioned is bad. Youre basically whining "these people have a track record of opposing all our entire radical agenda"