Netherlands, a country with a 85% vaccination rate, enters new lockdown due to COVID

Precious Roy wrote:

Only 9% in the Netherlands have boosters and they are facing an omicron wave on top of a huge Delta wave. Most people are off work (you actually get vacations in the EU) and strong action now will help prevent a devastating wave this winter.

Omicron is no joke. Texas has gone from 3k cases a day to 9k in just two weeks. In Houston, restaurants have been closing because they do not have enough staff after COVID outbreaks. I drove past a pop up drive through COVID testing site this morning and there were about thirty cars in line. Omicron just spreads too fast and is going to be overwhelming this winter. The only question is whether there are enough fully vaccinated people (3 doses) to keep the hospitals from overflowing again.

The only thing overwhelming this winter is going to be the potential overreaction by people like you over omicron. One thing you said was right though - omicron is no joke. It's a relief that such a mild strain gets to run through society and finally get us out of this pandemic. Of course then another variant will come out in a different country (but get blamed on "Trumpers" of course) that is even more mild than the common cold and we'll have people like you going into freak out mode again.

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""-""""--'-"--^' wrote:

They created/released the virus (in a communist country with rampant censorship and lies) and then they created the "cure." How convenient for big pharma and the institution. They're creating chaos so they have something to save you from. Time to wake up.

I'm trying to parse your medical preferences from this:

You don't like communism or "the institution" so I assume you aren't into socialized medicine.

You also don't like big pharma which is the epitome of capitalism.

Theoretically, if in the future a flu or cold were to be introduced into the world that was serve enough to get enough people sick to fill up your average capacity hospital, where would you prefer the treatments/remedies to come from?

I work in a hospital as a Nurse Anesthetist in Kentucky. The reason we are asking people to get vaccinated is the vaccine CAN save your life. The other reason is when you are unvaccinated and become ill, if you are admitted to the hospital, the hospital fills up. We had 3 floors of COVID positive patients and full ICU's a number of times. We become overwhelmed and have to divert patients to ANY open facility. Car accidents, broken bones, heart attacks, strokes, appendectomies, etc. get diverted. It has happened twice lasting weeks at a time at my facility in last 2 years.

This is not a government thing. It is a health care thing.

You can roll the dice for yourself but please don't ask us for the vaccine as your struggle to breathe. It is too late. Seen that on numerous occasions.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

In Houston, restaurants have been closing because they do not have enough staff after COVID outbreaks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.khou.com/amp/article/news/local/covid-houston-restaurants-temporarily-closing/285-0db7a778-41c8-43e6-a107-24933a20ebd2

Six restaurants in Houston have chosen to temporarily & voluntary shutdown, sometimes just for a few days.

There are literally almost 10,000 restaurants in Houston.

Totally incomplete list. Squabble, Savoir, Boomtown, Alice Blue, all of the Underbelly concepts, Tiny Champions, FM Kitchen, Rosalie Italian Soul, Acme Oyster House, Brasil are just a few that I have seen close recently. A bunch more are operating limited hours and limiting capacity due to being short staffed.

No one knows yet whether omicron is actually milder or whether it is causing fewer deaths and hospitalizations due to vaccination. We just don't know. The CDC has done a dismal job of collecting data, in part due to poor coordination with state officials who are trying to tow the COVID denier political line. SA may have had an easier time with omicron because of existing immunity to beta, which had some immunity escape. That may not hold for people with immunity from delta and alpha. The first omicron death in the US was in someone who had prior covid exposure but was not vaccinated.

So you are saying sa with low vaccination numbers is actually better prepared. Interesting that we agree

energeticlotuseater wrote:

The Netherlands enters a strict month long lockdown due to COVID. This is despite the fact they have a vaccination rate closing in on 90% (citation below).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/19/europe/netherlands-uk-europe-covid-december-2021-lockdown-intl/index.htmlhttps://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/vaccinaties

Not surprising , and not just the Netherlands. Flu virus mutates quickly, vaccines need to be updated. The key is to get vaccines implemented early before the virus becomes widespread and mutates.

This was successfully done for polio and smallpox, but Covid has spread worldwide and is mutating quickly like the "regular" flu. Also there are now almost 8 billion potential carriers instead of 2-3 billion during polio times, and much greater worldwide travel. Unfortunately a 2010 Polio outbreak in the Congo has resulted in mutations that may require a new vaccine, so even it's affected by the greater population/travel mix.

sayyestonepotism wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

No one knows yet whether omicron is actually milder or whether it is causing fewer deaths and hospitalizations due to vaccination. We just don't know. The CDC has done a dismal job of collecting data, in part due to poor coordination with state officials who are trying to tow the COVID denier political line. SA may have had an easier time with omicron because of existing immunity to beta, which had some immunity escape. That may not hold for people with immunity from delta and alpha. The first omicron death in the US was in someone who had prior covid exposure but was not vaccinated.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2021/12/20/watch-live-harris-county-judge-lina-hidalgo-joins-houston-area-labor-leaders-for-major-announcement/

So you are saying sa with low vaccination numbers is actually better prepared. Interesting that we agree

I'm actually pro vax but I read this the same way. Roy is tripping all over himself.

You won't get an answer wrote:

sayyestonepotism wrote:

So you are saying sa with low vaccination numbers is actually better prepared. Interesting that we agree

I'm actually pro vax but I read this the same way. Roy is tripping all over himself.

He's saying that specific prior infections confer pretty good immunity. However, they do so at the cost of a lot of lives. South Africa's excess death numbers over the past two years are among the worst in the world.

I'm 100% pro vax, pro vaccine mandate, and I think this is insane behavior.

Also look at the Netherlands curve, it looks like they may already be on their way down on the Omicron wave. I appears that Omicron started in Europe, not South Africa and the Netherlands curve looks very similar to South Africa but a little bit ahead.

Furthermore these waves keep happening at steady intervals, they last just about as long regardless of whether places lockdown or not. The only clear difference maker has been vaccines cutting down on hospitalization and death.

Even if vaccines don't prevent infection as well they are still working to limit serious illness and death so why lock down!! And for what its worth I totally reject all of the dumb conspiracy theories, I think this is just over-cautious behavior by agencies that are predisposed to being overly cautios

AXC wrote:

I'm 100% pro vax, pro vaccine mandate, and I think this is insane behavior.

Also look at the Netherlands curve, it looks like they may already be on their way down on the Omicron wave. I appears that Omicron started in Europe, not South Africa and the Netherlands curve looks very similar to South Africa but a little bit ahead.

We have Dutch niece in university, constantly posting picks with her boyfriend in crowded bars, no masks etc. She already caught Covid a year ago, but still thinks they should have clamped down much more, and much earlier.

Precious Roy wrote:

Only 9% in the Netherlands have boosters... The only question is whether there are enough fully vaccinated people (3 doses)

I never could have guessed they would change the definition of "vaccinated" and use that to justify lockdowns.

Who saw that coming?

Can't believe what I'm hearing wrote:

You got to be kidding...right?

An "85%" vax rate and country is locking down?

Why? I thought all the high-powered "experts" said that achieving a 70% vax rate would be enough to create herd immunity and all would be well & good. 🤔

So, can someone with some knowledge about this explain how a country can go into a lockdown at Christmas time, nonetheless, when there's a near 90% vax rate?!?

Harambe, 2600, Flagpole, etc...what say you?

The herd immunity calculations are based on the assumption that the immunity providing event, be it previous illness or vaccination provides 100% immunity. The lower the immunity provided the higher the percent of the population needing immunity. At this point with the new variance two doses of the vaccine does not get you to 70% immunity against infection, so I Herd immunity is impossible. We don’t yet know what three doses will get you.

An interesting sidenote, normally illnesses become both more infectious and milder over time. In the case of Covid, with so much of its infectious period coming before symptoms even present themselves, there has been very little evolutionary pressure for the virus to become milder. We are noting a shorter incubation period with Delta and especially omicron. Hopefully this will mean that the environmental pressure for milder disease will become stronger and mortality rates will start to decline with upcoming variants.

Stephen kissler brought up the evolutionary pressure issue. He is very informative

carmine9 wrote:

I am Sam wrote:

All of them or which one in particular? They are reported in our papers every day

Any of them.

Not sure why you want me to Google for you.

On Monday per NSW govt, 26 of 33 people in ICU were unvaxxed, 79%...reported in paper with source.

Per daily govt stats , again reported in papers daily, 70yr and over are 99% vaxxed. That is the cohort comprising almost all of ICU. That means 1% are unvaxxed, and they contribute the 26 (or close enough) of those in ICU, i.e. 80%

Do you want more from me ???

[/quote]

We have Dutch niece in university, constantly posting picks with her boyfriend in crowded bars, no masks etc. She already caught Covid a year ago, but still thinks they should have clamped down much more, and much earlier.[/quote]

Purely anecdotal but this is pretty annoying behavior that I’ve come across.

I’ve been to weddings, bars and visited friends during the height of the pandemic. Not always, but sometimes COVID and the various responses would come up in conversation and these same friends and acquaintances would complain how people weren’t taking COVID seriously enough while at the exact same time drinking a beer with me, a guy from out of state, maskless, indoors and a couple of feet from each other.

I am Sam wrote:

carmine9 wrote:

Any of them.

Not sure why you want me to Google for you.

On Monday per NSW govt, 26 of 33 people in ICU were unvaxxed, 79%...reported in paper with source.

Per daily govt stats , again reported in papers daily, 70yr and over are 99% vaxxed. That is the cohort comprising almost all of ICU. That means 1% are unvaxxed, and they contribute the 26 (or close enough) of those in ICU, i.e. 80%

Do you want more from me ???

Some shaky math there.

70 plus 99% vaxxed? No chance. Not even close

See attached:

70 plus comprise almost all of ICU? Doubtful. Perhaps a majority. Perhaps not.

26/33 unvaxxed? I am beginning to kind of doubt any if the the things you claim

Jump to assumption all 26 in the ICU who are unvaxxed and are all 70 plus and ergo, the unvaxxed who are 1% of all people (ignoring all the unvaxxed less than 70) provide 80% of the Covid patients in the ICU.

Not shocked for a country where drugs are legal and they make depressing existentialist movies.

NSW is New South Wales. Here is some info on vaccination rates there. Much higher rates than the US

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-interactive/2021/dec/17/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-australia-vaccination-rate-progress-how-many-people-vaccinated-percent-tracker-australian-states-number-total-daily-live-data-stats-updates-news-schedule-tracking-chart-percentage-new-cases-today

The NHL is shutting down despite having all but one player in the entire league vaccinated. Canada is making cross border travel difficult. It’s so ridiculous at this point, and I’m a registered Democrat who has never voted for a Republican in my life.