More impresive Zatopek's triple or Hassan's triple ?

1952 Helsinki: Emil Zatopek:

5000 Gold 14:06.6 OR

10000 Gold 29:17.0 OR

Marathon Gold 2:23:03.2 OR

2021 Tokyo: Sifan Hassan

(Personal Bests: 3:51.95 / 14:22.12 / 29:06.82)

1500 Bronze 3:55.86

5000 Gold 14:36.79

10000 Gold 29:55.32

Basically... the women today could have competed in a mixed gender Olympics in 1952 and won some serious hardware.

I would say its not even close... when comparing times... BUT they (Zatopeks Gen) were on dirt/cinder with leather and nails strapped to their feet....

Sifan Hassan is substantially better trained... but who knows how slow she would be under the circumstances Zatopek competed... or how much better (light years) zatopek would have been in todays Olympics with todays advantages.

Well, of course, Zatopek never ran against top East Africans and also -but you can't blame him for it - his training methods were far superior to his main rivals at his peak BUT as soon as Pirie and the Hungarians and Kuts started adopting Emile's advanced training methods his records came crashing down. But, but , BUT...at least he wasn't on the juice.

Everyone posting how Emil wasn’t great cause it was so long ago and the competition wasn’t great….. neither was nutrition, sports science, shoes etcccc

Dude ran sick times and proabbaly worked a full time job and also coached himself.

Bob Schul Countr wrote:

Everyone posting how Emil wasn’t great cause it was so long ago and the competition wasn’t great….. neither was nutrition, sports science, shoes etcccc

Dude ran sick times and proabbaly worked a full time job and also coached himself.

Exactly. Dude was figuring it out on his own.

Because the Olympics used to be a competition of the average working person. Amatuer.

Well, Emile didn't train like your average person. He was in the Czech army and was given all the time he needed to train. Again, I don't think he was a great natural running talent but he certainly had the resolve to turn out those amazing 40x400m training sessions.

Don't know that I saw it mentioned in the thread . . . the 1952 Olympic marathon was Zatopek's first. And at 2:23 was close to Jim Peters' 2:20:42 world record at the time, I'm with Zatopek.

On a related note: Shout out here to Lasse Viren, who at the 1976 Montreal games won both the 5K and 10K (just like he did in Munich in 1972) . . . and like Emil, decided to run his first marathon at those 1976 Games, finishing 5th in 2:13:11. Maybe Lasse's achievements warrant his inclusion in this discussion?

ilonggo wrote:

yeah, sure wrote:

He would have won the 3 women's races with ease.

Doubtful. His marathon PR is 9 minutes slower than Kosgei.

Sure, but how fast would she have run just jumping in her first marathon at the last minute without specific training, no knowledge of pacing, no pacers, crappy shoes, and having just completed a 5K and 10K?

yeah, sure wrote:

How much competition did Hassan really have? A past-her prime Obiri and a time trialer with zero kick. In her only competitive race she was crushed.

Very little, for the reasons you described. Hassan wasn't bothered by Obiri at all. In fact, I'm sure Hassan decided to add the 5000 because she watched the 2019 world championships 5000 and realized it was a joke that Obiri was allowed to win it against that weak field.

It's too bad Ayana had the injuries and may never return. I know she had a baby early this year. Her career may be over. Hassan knew darn well that Obiri wouldn't be gutsy enough to push a fast 5000 pace like Ayana would have, regardless of conditions. Kara Goucher was emphasizing that Obiri's strategy was essentially handing the race to Hassan on a silver platter. The only one who seemed surprised at Hassan's kick was Obiri.

Before the 10,000 Hassan looked weary and was shaking her head. She clearly was doubting her capabilities that night, given her schedule and the weather. But undoubtedly she realized that Gidey was a one dimensional time trialer without a kick, and unlike Ayana there were no examples of Gidet dominating a championship race via a high tempo from the outset. Hassan blew past Gidet to win the world championship 10,000 in 2019. Hassan knew all she had to do in Tokyo was linger nearby and essentially challenge Gidet and Obiri to sustain a risky pace. Once that didn't happen, Hassan surged in confidence because the platter was available again.

Credit to Hassan but right now the women's field strength really falls off beyond the 1500. For example, the 10,000 silver medal winner is not a young phenom. She is 30 years old. Very strange result, given her background.

yeah, sure wrote:

ilonggo wrote:

Doubtful. His marathon PR is 9 minutes slower than Kosgei.

Sure, but how fast would she have run just jumping in her first marathon at the last minute without specific training, no knowledge of pacing, no pacers, crappy shoes, and having just completed a 5K and 10K?

"Without specific training" ? Emile used to do long training runs of 2 hours and more. Combine that with his amazing interval training sessions and surely a great marathon performance would be guaranteed.

It's interesting that Hassan is entered in the 5K at Pre. She is taking the sure win over facing Kipyegon and Muir in the 1500. It seems like after losing to Kipyegon decisively in their last 2 races she would have something to prove.

Easy. Zatopek. He revolutionized running.

Big Red wrote:

They are two different eras. Hard to compare, perhaps an unfair comparison. Still, hard to argue with three gold medals. I give the nod to Emil Zatopek.

Watch the 5000m finish, what a killer move. Sure he's not exactly running 12:40 but it's still quite the burst.

https://youtu.be/EmiPIstRZj4

Also he ran off the track after the finish line; wish more athletes would do that, instead of standing or laying in the actual track.

RunAnnArbor wrote:

Don't know that I saw it mentioned in the thread . . . the 1952 Olympic marathon was Zatopek's first. And at 2:23 was close to Jim Peters' 2:20:42 world record at the time, I'm with Zatopek.

On a related note: Shout out here to Lasse Viren, who at the 1976 Montreal games won both the 5K and 10K (just like he did in Munich in 1972) . . . and like Emil, decided to run his first marathon at those 1976 Games, finishing 5th in 2:13:11. Maybe Lasse's achievements warrant his inclusion in this discussion?

You're DAMN right Viren's achievements should be included in this comparison. I have mentioned this many times on this forum.

Zatopek didn't have to run a 10000m heat in '52. He also had 3 days rest for the marathon.

Viren had to run a 10000m heat in Montreal and ran the marathon on less than 24 hours rest after that hard 5000m final against the likes of Quax and Dixon.

Viren would have beaten Zatopek by roughly 2 miles in the marathon....his time was 10 minutes faster!

And for the jackasses that keep bringing up the blood doping thing WITHOUT proof.......other runners had a chance to study Viren's arms and such on the track and even in the showers and guess what?

No needle marks/other entry marks observed! I guess the Finns were masters at covering up the marks up, right?

Viren has always denied blood doping. I have read that a German magazine once offered him a million dollars (when the money was badly needed) for the "true" story on the blood doping rumours. Viren said "sure, I'll take the money but the true story is that I didn't blood dope".

Offer withdrawn, lol.

Give the guy credit. He was a master at peaking for the only event back then that mattered.

zyyzz wrote:

I would argue that Zatopek's is more impressive since training was such primitive back then, even if it was probably better than half of current day highschool training

I do not know that today's high school coaches train their kids better than in Zatopek's generation. They do have the advantage of shoes, medicine, nutrition, and education that Zatopek did not have. Also, lifestyle makes a difference. Emil probably had to get up and shovel coal into the furnace at 1 a.m.

Jed Clampett wrote:

zyyzz wrote:

I would argue that Zatopek's is more impressive since training was such primitive back then, even if it was probably better than half of current day highschool training

I do not know that today's high school coaches train their kids better than in Zatopek's generation. They do have the advantage of shoes, medicine, nutrition, and education that Zatopek did not have. Also, lifestyle makes a difference. Emil probably had to get up and shovel coal into the furnace at 1 a.m.

You cannot compare generations. Respect the Pioneers...Give it to Emil Zatopek!

Yes Viren tops both. Far more developed sport than in '52. 5 races in 9 days. Heats plus 2 gold including an epic 5000 on Friday, then THE NEXT DAY marathon 5th in 2:13. Personally I think he did BD, but don't care. Either way, it is the GOAT distance sequence.

she probably wants a new PR at 5k, which is currently by far her slowest time

aksdlakjd wrote:

Yes Viren tops both. Far more developed sport than in '52. 5 races in 9 days. Heats plus 2 gold including an epic 5000 on Friday, then THE NEXT DAY marathon 5th in 2:13. Personally I think he did BD, but don't care. Either way, it is the GOAT distance sequence.

Thank you.

People are being hypocritical saying today's athletes are doped and back then they were not. Doping is as old as competitive sports and today's methods are more accurate at detecting drugs compared to Zatopek's time.