Bob Kennedy's Training In Detail from '96 is up

BA wrote:

Dirty Harry wrote:

YOU COULDN'T DO IT IF YOUR LIFe DEPENDED ON IT. GET REAL.

i'm pretty sure he was just saying that he could do that workout at his own 5k pace, not at BK's pace. i'm pretty sure everybody could do that workout at his own 5k pace, but few could at BK's.

I'm pretty sure none of the workout cited was at Kennedy's 5k pace.

greatread wrote:

It's quite interesting, but it would be more interesting with his training during the base, these weeks doesn't show the hard work during the year. Showing this to High-school kids isn't that smart, they will keep doing track work 3 times a week or start with it and refer to Bob's training....during his peak-period.

Showing this to Letsrun idiots is even dumber.

greatread wrote:

Bob Kennedy: Ideally I want to do 100 to 110 miles per week. That includes one long run of 13 to 16 miles

Where have I heard that before? I'm starting to believe that the long run is too overrated.

I have been reading about using LT type intervals, some minimal short fast stuff and only a slight reduction in weekly mileage as the way to taper. This schedule is the total opposite of that, the question is which approach is better, it's hard to disagree with Bob Kennedy's approach considering the results he achieved. Can this type of taper be usefull for the average runner (15-17 min 5k).

runner39 wrote:

I have been reading about using LT type intervals, some minimal short fast stuff and only a slight reduction in weekly mileage as the way to taper. This schedule is the total opposite of that, the question is which approach is better, it's hard to disagree with Bob Kennedy's approach considering the results he achieved. Can this type of taper be usefull for the average runner (15-17 min 5k).

That's exactly what Kennedy's schedule was like. LT type intervals (repeat 400m's at 3k to 1500m pace, or the 3 x (1200m(:60), 400m, (4:00)) sessions), minimal short fast stuff (all the repeat 200m's he does), and a slight reduction in weekly mileage (75 --> 65 miles). He does all of that. Am I wrong or misreading something?

I also wish someone would post Bob Kennedy's base training period, or maybe what his training is from February to May, because that is where a majority of the work is done. The racing season is just the product of all that work and preparation. Kennedy wouldn't be able to go out and do those track workouts without doing some tougher workouts earlier on. Sorry if I am saying sounds too obvious.

400's at 3k to 1500m pace are not tempo pace intervals

the 1200's were done in 3 min, hardly tempo pace, about 3k pace for him, I was referring to 1k/1 mile tempo pace intervals and the 200's at 1500m pace during the racing season, he definitely does not do the tempo stuff ala daniels

"Tempo pace" is kind of a general term here I think. You originally said LT (Lactate Threshold) type intervals, which is what those 1200m's + 400m's were trying to do I believe. He would only take 60 seconds of rest after each 1200m and then run a a 1 mile pace 400m. It seems like that workout is totally geared toward improving the Lactate Threshold.

As for all the repeat 400m workouts he does, he does them at a pace between 58 - 60 seconds, which is about 4 - 7 % faster than 13:00 5k pace. These kinds of workouts coupled with workouts like 5 x 1000m @ 2:31 avg. w/ 2 min. rest between intervals are the type of intervals used to raise the LT for a specific distance, in this case, the 5000m. So when you say LT type intervals, what exactly do you mean?

I am referring to Daniels racing phase, he states that during the racing phase the 3k/5k pace intervals are stopped and tempo pace (10 mile to marathon pace) intervals along with some 1500 pace reps (200's) are done. During this phase the races are the hard efforts and the workouts are just to maintain fitness. I am not saying this is the way to train during the racing phase, just curious about the way Kennedy did it, seem to work for him.

I like that he still did a 1 mile cool down after finishing 6th in the Olympics. I have a hard time getting my kids to do a cool down after finishing a dual meet.

Oh, I see. Maybe Kennedy was running his 3 - 5 mile runs on his off days at 10 mile to marathon pace, so it was a combination of both the Daniels' running formula, plus some specific endurance work. Isn't Kennedy on the cover of Daniels' Running Formula?

You see why he was never going to run a great marathon.

irun wrote:

"Tempo pace" is kind of a general term here I think. You originally said LT (Lactate Threshold) type intervals, which is what those 1200m's + 400m's were trying to do I believe. He would only take 60 seconds of rest after each 1200m and then run a a 1 mile pace 400m. It seems like that workout is totally geared toward improving the Lactate Threshold.

Totally geared toward improving lactate threshold? At 3k-5k pace for 1200 and then a 400 at about mile pace? No offense, but that workout isn't designed to improve LT.

irun wrote:

"Tempo pace" is kind of a general term here I think. You originally said LT (Lactate Threshold) type intervals, which is what those 1200m's + 400m's were trying to do I believe. He would only take 60 seconds of rest after each 1200m and then run a a 1 mile pace 400m. It seems like that workout is totally geared toward improving the Lactate Threshold.

As for all the repeat 400m workouts he does, he does them at a pace between 58 - 60 seconds, which is about 4 - 7 % faster than 13:00 5k pace. These kinds of workouts coupled with workouts like 5 x 1000m @ 2:31 avg. w/ 2 min. rest between intervals are the type of intervals used to raise the LT for a specific distance, in this case, the 5000m. So when you say LT type intervals, what exactly do you mean?

when he says LT intervals he means intervals at around the pace you could maintain for 1 hour.

the 1200/400 is a standard "mix" workout. primarily focused on event specific vo2max. now that workout will improve lt, it will improve just about everything, but to designate it as a lactate threshold wkout is either wrong, or you are trying to be cute with terminology.

Earth-shattering.

nice example of a taper!

This shows that many world class athletes don´t train the way that internet clowns like "Tinman" preaches. It is amazing that anonymous people like "Tinman", "Hadd" etc. can become some sort of training prophets without any proof of their coaching credentials.

Does high milage apply to every race? He was a 5k man, does anyoe think that he should be workiing off of a marathoner's base? If you ask him, as I have and probably numerous others have, he will say that his typical high milage was in the 100-110. That is what he found best for him. I'm sure he tried higher, and like everyone else he tried less. In his last few years the 100ish level is what he found was best for him. At least he did go higher and find his proverbial sweet spot.

tempo pace intervals w/ reps is also what Daniels advises in the racing phase, would you classify him as a "internet clown"