Jess Hull progression - nothing to see here

Primate 1 wrote:

BigOz wrote:

I like your posts and generally agree. I, again, have to agree here.
The only thing is that I’m a biased Australian. A few other Qs too. The drug testing in Oz is horribly strict, to a very high standard and frequent - you can’t get away with the shenanigans that are routine in so many other countries. Also, import/export of anything at all - even fruit and vegetables - os extremely strict and heavily regulated. Let alone drugs or ‘packets’ of things. Customs open everything and anything that isn’t declared properly or just to spot check. The average pharmacy is terrible too - one needs a doctor’s prescription for anything of use (unlike in many countries where one can get EPO in the average phamacy..laughably impossible in OZ) + even a doctor will be heavily eyeballed if the doctor is prescribing off-label frequently. It’s insanely regulated and ‘big brother’ like in Australia. If she’s on PEDs, how on earth would she get them in Oz? Someone in Ferntree Gully cooking up a storm? It’s not impossible, just close to it in Australia. It’s not the place to go and live in if that’s what she’s doing.

According to an analysis by the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission of wastewater data, Australians consumed more than 16.5 tons of methamphtamine, cocaine, heroin, and MDMA in 2023.

And you think people in Australia can't get PEDs?

wejo wrote:

Ruxton Towers XC wrote:

This is what bothers me...

• all college kids seem to be able to break 4:00 in the mile
• Nico Young just ran sub-13, sub-27, 3:34, and 1:45 in the same season.
• HS kids who run sub-9 for 3200 are a dime a dozen.
• Three of the fastest 800s of all time were just run in the same race (by randos we have barely heard of)
• Jessica Hull can run 3:50, Nikki Hiltz can run 5:55, and Laura Muir just ran a PR in the twilight of her career
• Faith Kipyegon doesn't even look tired after her 3:49 WR
• Men have run 12:3x in the 5000m and lost the race
• Sub-13 is something that pros can just do in a small meet or time trial
• Men's marathoning is in 2:01-land and 2:05 is considered "meh" (except in America)
• Women's marathoning includes a 2:11 from a runner we didn't really know
• the men's 1500m has to be 3:30 flat (or faster) or it is not even considered a good race.
• And runners can keep smashing PRs until their 30s and early 40s?

So if we grant that the shoes and training is better, that can't explain everything, can it?

No. So there is some PED (or combo of PEDs) out there. What is weird to me is that all these people from random high schoolers to Faith Kipyegon and Jakob and the Algerians are taking "something" but nobody on this message board has a clue what it is?

How can every coach, collegiate runner, former pro, gym-bro, and obsessed masters runner on this board have ZERO clue what these people are on?

Are we all totally being left out of some loop? How do all these elites know what to take, how to take it, and where to get it, but we don't even know what it is? Man, we are clueless.

So I think what you are saying is that a lot of these people are clean and there isn't a new super drug that everyone is one but no one knows about.

I know all this for a fact. wrote:

Primate 1 wrote:

According to an analysis by the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission of wastewater data, Australians consumed more than 16.5 tons of methamphtamine, cocaine, heroin, and MDMA in 2023.

And you think people in Australia can't get PEDs?

"According to an analysis by the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission of wastewater data, Australians consumed more than 16.5 tons of methamphtamine, cocaine, heroin, and MDMA in 2023.
And you think people in Australia can't get PEDs?"

Of course you can get PEDs in Australia, only an idiot would think otherwise, FMD you can get drugs in a high security prison so you're going to be able to get them elsewhere.

The point is, if you're a high profile sports person the last place you're going to take PEDs is Australia, because you're going to get pinged. You highlighted the degree of analysis and expertise yourself, if they can analyse waste water to the degree they do they can analyse PEDs in a person, and they do, often and unexpectedly, especially if you're a team member leading up to the Olympics.

cattle farming wrote:

I know all this for a fact. wrote:

"According to an analysis by the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission of wastewater data, Australians consumed more than 16.5 tons of methamphtamine, cocaine, heroin, and MDMA in 2023.
And you think people in Australia can't get PEDs?"

Of course you can get PEDs in Australia, only an idiot would think otherwise, FMD you can get drugs in a high security prison so you're going to be able to get them elsewhere.

The point is, if you're a high profile sports person the last place you're going to take PEDs is Australia, because you're going to get pinged. You highlighted the degree of analysis and expertise yourself, if they can analyse waste water to the degree they do they can analyse PEDs in a person, and they do, often and unexpectedly, especially if you're a team member leading up to the Olympics.

Cattle farms have long been the easiest source for many PEDs (looking at you ESP). Australia is the 3rd largest exporter of beef in the world...

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Clean Sport Advocate wrote:

All those groups you listed are getting faster across the board because of shoe tech, better training, fast tracks, wave lights, etc.

Those factors cannot explain how Jessica Hull, who has already been able to enjoy the benefits of modern advances for the past several years, suddenly went from an also-ran to running right behind Faith Kipyegon.

So I said I still am giving the BOTD here - but it's really by a thread and these are the primary reasons why.

To be honest, if Hull has actually been a less accomplished/relevant athlete over this distance in the last 2-3 season it might incredibly be more convincing. Someone bought up Ruth Wysocki earlier and how she busted out a huge PR in the 1984 trials to beat Slaney. But she basically never ran the 1500m but was elite over 800m for many years so it's not a huge stretch to say she was just super untapped over the distance. Maybe if the 3000/5000 had been her premier events with the occasional foray into the 1500m then it's more palatable.

But that's not the case here. Hull is a locked in DL level athlete and has been now for at least 2 seasons. She's run the 1500m/mile in Monaco the last 2 years, same with Brussels - these are fast venues (no less "fast" than the Stade Sébastien Charléty) with wavelight and with respect to maybe the fastest of them all, Monaco, and "pacemaking", she has had Kipyegon there running the same perfect splits as a few days ago in Paris.

People need to stop it with the spikes. Trust me, the Zoom Vic spikes she wore are fundamentally no different to the ones of the previous two seasons. Some nice updates to the geometry of the foam which is purely visual and the zoom bags are the same. You want to know the biggest difference? They have gone from 6 spike pins to 4 (which I love btw you don't even need them) which probably saves them 10-12g in receptacle/spike weight.

So really we are left with training/focus/attitude. As you pointed out, does this explain how we go from front end of the pack, through to breaking away from the pack right behind the WR holder and best female MD runner ever? Does training work like this? Was she training so sub-optimally the last 2-3 seasons (despite being a 3.57 runner which is still very very good) and whatever the change was just flipped a switch and opened the floodgates? That's what we really have to believe here. If you choose to of course....

Armstronglivs wrote:

bladerunner wrote:

Then why do they evade tests? Please educate us on how drugs are masked and don't show up on tests.

Marion Jones, Barry Bonds and others showed over twenty years ago that an athlete could be "glowing" and it wouldn't result in a positive test. Those athletes were only caught because they were in their supplier's records. Howman said it was quite a shock for WADA to discover that athletes could easily "mask" their drug use. In the two decades since it has become an integral part of the doping process now, that the drugs being used will often contain masking agents to avoid their detection. It's one of the reasons there has been an increased reliance by antidoping on the bio-passport, to try to detect drug use through unusual physiological indicators when tests cannot detect the drugs being used. But even the passport can be beaten. Doping is one of the most sophisticated parts of professional sport today, it is at the cutting edge - and fans haven't a clue.