There is no “genetic superiority” when it comes to distance running. Literally everyone sub 2:09 is just doping.

You haven't understood. As always.

It is estimated conservatively that the numbers of athletes doping will be at least ten times the number caught. It may be much much higher. From the number of Kenyans busted in recent years we can infer the actual numbers doping will be in the thousands. That is what "doping more" means. Their sport is corrupt.

The efforts to get around what the Kenyan authorities now openly admit, that there is a widespread and comprehensive doping culture in East Africa with an entire complex of coaches, agents and doping doctors is desperate. If there is a comprehensive doping culture to that extent, then it will directly influence performance. Yet with classic circular logic, the results of that doping culture are cited in a lame attempt to refute it. And we have seen these type of overperformances before, wherever doping gets the green light. Leaving aside the Eastern Bloc and Ma's Amy, there are Jamaican sprinters. Spanish cyclists in the 1990s/2000s. British cycling more recently. Performance will directly correlate to the extensiveness of doping that is being practiced and permitted.

Where was this East African dominance before the EPO era? You had some great runners to be sure, but it was an even playing field. It is obviously the doping culture that is tied to the alleged overperformance. People have investigated the so-called genetic superiority and found zero evidence to support it biologically. But let's assume that a tribal group exhibits certain traits more conducive to distance running success. Human beings are genetically very similar. There will typically be more genetic similarity between ethnic groups than within them. Members of other groups will have the same traits. And those traits will in no way be strong enough to create natural athletic dominance. What we see instead is chemical dominance, which is easy to recognize.

You are around 70 years old? Hard to believe, you act like a child.

You never go into concrete questions.

The no. of doped runners from all the other (non east African) countries for sure is much much higher than the no. of doped runners from Kenya.

Still Kenyans (Kalenjins!) outperform the rest in the Marathon by a BIG margin. How do you explain this?

250 + busts compared to a handful in the entire combined West. Stop pulling unsubstantiated consipracy theory claims out of your behind to justify your weird racist fetish.

If Ma had had more Chinese to work with, and more than 1 year to work with them (1993), the top 100 womens 3000m times (or whatever distance Ma decided to focus on) would now be Chinese. And it would have NOTHING to do with genetics.

Curious self-projection. Where do you keep pulling 250+ from?

Absolutely, Kenya has consistently been behind Russia in doping busts, not to mention China and India.

Proportionally, given the large number of Kenyan athletes compared to other nations, it is not all that clear whether Kenyan doping is proportionally worse than the global average, or if Kenya is even in the top-10.

When comparing the Chinese womento East African women, the reasons for each success need to consider many factors, beyond the artificially false choice between doping and genetics.

But again, you need to update some facts. Ma had more than 4 years training Chinese women, with the Chinese women performing in exactly one meet in 1993 and one meet in 1997, both hosted in China (Beijing and Shanghai).

I can't speak for everyone, but I think no one is doubting the power of male hormones and steroids for these shorter distance events for women who do not produce these hormones naturally. It's not clear who you are arguing against when you dispute Chinese genetics.

There is a 1 to 1 correlation between no. of busts and doped athletes? No doping in Ethiopia? I disagree.

The billions of non East Africans for sure have more doped runners than the Kalenjin tribe has. Yet, the Kalenjins outperform the non East Africans in the Marathon by big margin.

How do you explain this? "doping" is not a explanation.

What do you mean by "weird racist fetish"?

Yours don't interest me.

It never interests you when your ignorance is exposed.
Remember when you were criticizing Valby's low mileage and someone asked you, if you were coaching her, an injury-prone athlete, how would you approach it? Of course you never answered because you are ignorant and when confronted with facts you ignore the questions.

Keep on entertaining us with your narcissism. Your self-owns are amusing.

You are discussing the subject over and over again in this forum, so you are obviously interested .

So far I have just seen one explanation from you for the Kenyan (mainly Kalenjin!) success: doping.

There are many positives from Kenya, especially recently. And I have no doubt there are much more Kenyan runners who dope. But for sure this no. can't exceed the no. of non East African dopers - it can't come close to it. "doping" can't explain the astonishing Marathon statistics.

For sure there are many reasons for this enormous success from such a small group. You don't even want to think about it because you are completely blinded by your hate and your narrow-mindedness.

Your contribution to this forum is extremely negative.

This is a terrible post full of twisted and backward assumptions if not lies.

First, you mistate what Kenyan authorities openly admit. Unless you can provide a reference, no authority has ever said "there is a widespread and comprehensive doping culture in East Africa with an entire complex of coaches, agents and doping doctors".

If "Performance will directly correlate to the extensiveness of doping that is being practiced and permitted", where was the Russian dominance? Russia has been the leader in doping all their athletes since the '70s. The problem with this thinking is that there is no established correlation between extensive doping and extensive performance.

Where was the East African dominance before the EPO era? In World Cross country. Kenyan and Ethiopia dominated the world for a whole decade before the '90s.

Then you double down on the artificial dichotomy of genetics versus doping, as if chopping down the genetic strawman is sufficient to argue "What we see instead is chemical dominance".

If "Performance will directly correlate to the extensiveness of doping that is being practiced and permitted", where was the Russian dominance? Russia has been the leader in doping all their athletes since the '70s. The problem with this thinking is that there is no established correlation between extensive doping and extensive performance.

Why do you keep on with this reference to Russia, no matter how many times it's pointed out how stupid it is?

So the ramshackle mess of a country has been doping it's most likely medalists, and rather effectively in women's middle-distance and race walking, and you think because they aren't competitive in marathon running, that it means EPO doesn't work? FFS. What evidence do you have that Russia has been doping their marathon runners? How many full-time marathon runners do you think Russia has compared to East Africa? Are you capable of understanding that marathon running is probably around the 187th attractive sport for young Russian athletes, whereas it's number 1 by a massive margin in East Africa? As I type this the temperature is -6c in St Petersburg. It's -1c in Moscow (quite mild for this time of year). It's 19c in Iten, Kenya.

Why do the mods allow you to ruin every single doping related thread with the same tired old copy and paste walls of text, making the exact same 'arguments'?

I guess for the same reason that they allow you to ruin every single doping related thread with a bunch of "facts" that you get wrong, or you make up.

Why do you keep saying 250+ Kenyans? Where are you pulling that from?

Askes the guy who writes his wrong infos over and over again.

Because you keep suggesting Kenya is the worst, while the example of Russia disproves it.

Russian women compete in the marathon, including Liliya Shobukhova. With the men, either Russia doesn't dope them, because they know it won't work, or they do dope them, and it doesn't work.