Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

the fake reasons that Russia have used for this war have changed more than Trump changes his depends. But it is funny to read the first few pages of this thread. The Putin simps on this board not only believed them but tried to back each and every one of them with their own proof why they were true. Endless hubris about how Putin was right and powerful and mighty and this war would be swift. Now they don't post here or have changed their aliases.

All that money to buy weapons and pay the of corrupt Ukrainian government officials. And to fight ? While our own cities are decaying and millions of Americans are out of work? Are you kidding me? All for another proxy war to . And to of the Deep State war machine. And all the while, the Washington bureaucrats and their lapdogs in the media spout their lies and talking points as if they were Gospel. This war should be called “The Great American Propaganda War.”

We have a Pentagon spokesperson (John Kirby, who allegedly served as an admiral in the U.S. Navy) at a press conference because of the suffering of the Ukrainian people due to this war — which the U.S. started and might not allow to end until the last Ukrainian (and even every last European?) soldier is dead.

Where were Kirby’s tears the past eight years, when Ukrainian nationalists were bombing civilian towns and villages in Donbas and killing of civilians, including children? Where were his tears on , when a mob of Ukrainians chased a small group of peaceful anti-Kyiv protesters in Odesa into a building and then set fire to it and ? For that matter, where were his tears for the thousands of innocent civilians in Raqqa and Mosul who died when the U.S. their cities in the so-called Global War on Terror? Where are his tears for the thousands of Yemeni children who are starving to death because of U.S. support for a regime change war by the Saudis?

How many Americans are even aware of any of this? How many Americans are aware that the U.S. engineered the 2014 of a duly elected president of Ukraine and installed a puppet government? How many Americans are aware that the U.S. has been neo-Nazis, for years, in blatant violation of the ?

Post reported for plagiarism.

Don't want to address the facts I copied and pasted, do you?

You haven’t answered a simple question that’s been asked countless times over the last two days. Do you think it’s right for Russia to invade Ukraine?

Already answered Birko.

Here is some more.

Fact #1: The US is expanding NATO
This excellent article describes the spirit of the 1990 negotiations in which Secretary of State James Baker promised Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would not move “one inch eastward” after the fall of the Berlin Wall. There is simply no doubt that the United States made false promises to Russian leaders at the time. Those promises were broken in 2004 with the inclusion of seven former Soviet states. Most recently, Macedonia joined in 2020. This article discusses the severity of Western incursion into countries once within the Soviet sphere of influence, including weapons sales and military support.
My question is, why is NATO expansion so important? I am old enough to remember the fall of the Soviet Union. In the early 1990s, it seemed inevitable that a strong reduction in nuclear arms stockpiles should follow. With the destruction of the Warsaw Pact, there was no longer a need for NATO. It should have been disbanded decades ago. Had NATO been disbanded, none of this would be happening.
Fact #2: The US was involved in a coup that deposed the democratically elected leader of Ukraine
In 2014 the US government aided and abetted a revolution in Ukraine against the democratically elected president who had been contemplating strengthening economic ties to Russia. This article links to a recorded conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Neuland and then Ukrainian ambassador Geoffery Pyatt. The conversation clearly indicates US involvement in the use of extra-Democratic mechanizations to determine the political leadership of Ukraine post-revolution. Can anyone believe this behavior to be ethical? This revolution caused the start of the civil war that has been raging in Ukraine for the last eight years.
Fact #3: There is a civil war happening in Ukraine
Perhaps most fascinating concerning the typical Western narrative about the current crisis is the complete lack of a historical context from which this narrative is formed. Many seem completely oblivious to the fact that Eastern Ukraine is populated by Russian speaking people who have historical and cultural ties with Russia. This portion of Ukraine seceded in 2014 as a result of the violent overthrow of the elected government during the Maiden Revolution. The People’s Republic of Donetsk and The People’s Republic of Luhansk were formed through a referendum. This civil war has resulted in the death’s of over 14,000 people over the last eight years.
Bear in mind, this civil war may not have happened without US support for the revolution in the first place. Given the circumstances, should not the citizens of Donetsk and Luhansk rights to self-determination at least get a mention in the general conversation about the situation in Ukraine?
Fact #4: There are Nazis in Western Ukraine
A cursory review of the history of Ukraine is enough to reveal a powerful anti-Russian National Socialist movement within the country including a long-standing hero worship of the WWII German collaborator Stephan Bandera. This movement has political parties as well as an entire military battalion representing political and military power within the Ukrainian establishment.
Russian-speaking Ukrainians have endured political oppression as a result of these far-right nationalist movements. On May 3, 2014, anti-Russian activists, including members of the National Socialist Right Sector party, forced hundreds of Russian sympathizers to seek shelter inside the Trade Union building in the city of Odessa. They subsequently set the building on fire killing at least 30 people. Also, the government of Ukraine has committed civil rights violations against Russian speaking citizens by discriminating against the Russian language.
Fact #5: The Ukrainian government never implemented the Minsk Accords
How many Americans have even heard of the Minsk Agreement that was negotiated to end the Ukrainian civil war? Rather than pulling back heavy weaponry, allowing humanitarian aid, and providing the separatist republics with a degree of autonomy as promised, the Ukrainian government continued to shell Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine, causing mounting civilian casualties. These attacks were facilitated with over a billion dollars of US military aid.

If somebody asks you "Do you like hamburgers?" And your response is "The dairy industry is evil." You didn't actually answer the question.

So, again, Do you think Russia was right to invade Ukraine?

If you are incapable of going back and finding that I have already answered this simplistic and dumb question several times, I cannot help you. No more than I can stop you from posting the same comment over and over again under several different names.

You have never answered,you have put a load of waffle but at no point have you ever said yes or no to was Russia right to invade Ukraine.

You can quiet everyone by quiting the post where you answered yes or no and I will apologise.

(un)Fact #1: The US is expanding NATO - This excellent article describes the spirit of the 1990 negotiations in which Secretary of State James Baker promised Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would not move “one inch eastward” after the fall of the Berlin Wall. There is simply no doubt that the United States made false promises to Russian leaders at the time. Those promises were broken in 2004 with the inclusion of seven former Soviet states. Most recently, Macedonia joined in 2020. This article discusses the severity of Western incursion into countries once within the Soviet sphere of influence, including weapons sales and military support.

My question is, why is NATO expansion so important? I am old enough to remember the fall of the Soviet Union. In the early 1990s, it seemed inevitable that a strong reduction in nuclear arms stockpiles should follow. With the destruction of the Warsaw Pact, there was no longer a need for NATO. It should have been disbanded decades ago. Had NATO been disbanded, none of this would be happening.

Many countries fear Russia because it's led my a mentally unstable loser. Therefore, they seek protection from Russia aggression by voluntarily joining NATO. Maybe if Russia didn't continually attack its neighbors these countries wouldn't feel the need to join NATO. Or, the realize that Russia is a mediocre sh*thole, while Europe is thriving. Therefore, they decided they don't want anything to do with Russia and would rather join the modern world where people aren't imprisoned for speaking out against the government.

So, my questions is, why is Russia so afraid of NATO when NATO has never attacked Russia? Had Russia been broken into 40 little pieces, none of this would have happened. If Russia hadn't decided to invade Crimea, none of this would have happened. If Russia hadn't decided to support separatists in Dontesk and Luhansk, none of this would have happened. If Russia hadn't launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, none of this would have happened. So, what this shows is that ALL of the blame lies squarely at Russia's feet.

(un)Fact #2: The US was involved in a coup that deposed the democratically elected leader of Ukraine - In 2014 the US government aided and abetted a revolution in Ukraine against the democratically elected president who had been contemplating strengthening economic ties to Russia. This article links to a recorded conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Neuland and then Ukrainian ambassador Geoffery Pyatt. The conversation clearly indicates US involvement in the use of extra-Democratic mechanizations to determine the political leadership of Ukraine post-revolution. Can anyone believe this behavior to be ethical? This revolution caused the start of the civil war that has been raging in Ukraine for the last eight years.

Still false. No matter how many times you repeat this. It's still wrong. Please, point out one or two sentences in the transcript of the call between Neuland and Pyatt where these "
extra-Democratic mechanizations" are discussed? I'll wait...

This phone call happened well after the Maidan Revolution had begun. Every Ukrainian I know (many of whom were at Maidan) supports the ouster of President Yanukovych and is much happier in a pro-Western Ukraine.

Fact #3: There is a civil war happening in Ukraine - Perhaps most fascinating concerning the typical Western narrative about the current crisis is the complete lack of a historical context from which this narrative is formed. Many seem completely oblivious to the fact that Eastern Ukraine is populated by Russian speaking people who have historical and cultural ties with Russia. This portion of Ukraine seceded in 2014 as a result of the violent overthrow of the elected government during the Maiden Revolution. The People’s Republic of Donetsk and The People’s Republic of Luhansk were formed through a referendum. This civil war has resulted in the death’s of over 14,000 people over the last eight years. Bear in mind, this civil war may not have happened without US support for the revolution in the first place. Given the circumstances, should not the citizens of Donetsk and Luhansk rights to self-determination at least get a mention in the general conversation about the situation in Ukraine?

Fact #1 - The US did not cause the Maidan Revolution or the overthrow of
President Yanukovych.

Fact #2 - Many of the 14,000 people killed over the last 8 years were killed by pro-separatist forces (including more than 300 civilians when the shot down a civilian airliner).

Fact #3 - Bear in mind that Russia had forces on the ground in Donetsk and Luhansk for the last 8 years.

Fact #4 - Kyiv was a metropolis while Moscow was just a frozen piece of tundra. Therefore, all Russians have historical and cultural ties to Ukraine. Based on this history, Russia should cease to exist and be ruled by President Zelensky (while Putin rots in a jail cell) in Ukrainian Siberia.

Fact #4: There are Nazis in Western Ukraine - A cursory review of the history of Ukraine is enough to reveal a powerful anti-Russian National Socialist movement within the country including a long-standing hero worship of the WWII German collaborator Stephan Bandera. This movement has political parties as well as an entire military battalion representing political and military power within the Ukrainian establishment. Russian-speaking Ukrainians have endured political oppression as a result of these far-right nationalist movements. On May 3, 2014, anti-Russian activists, including members of the National Socialist Right Sector party, forced hundreds of Russian sympathizers to seek shelter inside the Trade Union building in the city of Odessa. They subsequently set the building on fire killing at least 30 people. Also, the government of Ukraine has committed civil rights violations against Russian speaking citizens by discriminating against the Russian language.

There are more Nazis in Russia in than in Ukraine. So, Russia should maybe clean up their utterly disgusting home-life before trying to impose any moral judgements elsewhere. Furthermore, they should expand LBGTQ+ rights in Russia if they're so concerned about human rights violations. Oh, and expand freedom of speech protections. So, Ukraine isn't perfect. Russia is even worse. I assume you support the US invading Russia to fix the clear flaws in their society.

Russia (in addition to the USSR) has a long history of suppressing or outlawing the Ukrainian language. A policy that they've continued in areas of Russian-occupied Ukraine.

Fact #5: The Ukrainian government never implemented the Minsk Accords - How many Americans have even heard of the Minsk Agreement that was negotiated to end the Ukrainian civil war? Rather than pulling back heavy weaponry, allowing humanitarian aid, and providing the separatist republics with a degree of autonomy as promised, the Ukrainian government continued to shell Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine, causing mounting civilian casualties. These attacks were facilitated with over a billion dollars of US military aid.

Neither side has fully implemented the Minsk Accords. So, unilaterally blaming Ukraine suggests you're either a biased troll or clueless.

There. Now I've corrected the "facts" that you plagiarized from somewhere because you can't actually put together a thought of your own. I showed that everything you posted is flat our wrong, incomplete, or just pro-Russian fantasy. Please respond with your own work. Using facts and/or legitimate sources (i.e., no YouTube morons that couldn't find Russia on map, let alone Ukraine) would be appreciated.

Do you think Russia was right to invade Ukraine?

I can't find the answer because you didn't answer. You seem to have a lot of time searching the internet and then copying and pasting what you find. Maybe you could do so here. Fidn your answer, copy and paste it in response to this post.

Do you think Russia was right to invade Ukraine?

cnn.com

Two Russian journalists appear to defy Putin, slamming the war in Ukraine | CNN Business

Henry Klapper

Two Russian reporters appeared to post at least 30 articles on Monday that criticized President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Link:www.cnn.com/2022/05/10/media/russia-jo...

Oh snap!

If Russia is doing the right thing, why do they keep lying about what they are doing?

World media, not just US, reported Russia claimed they were conducting drills in February on the Ukrainian border. RUSSIA LIED. That’s a fact. And Russia continues to lie.

If you don’t agree with the US media, you need to take it up with media watchdogs, not a running website.

russian news anchor

Props to you for posting the most - quantity over quality - the mantra of every mediocre runner ever.

Looks like the international language of money will be stepping in and playing an ever increasing role very soon. Putie looking at anywhere from an 8-12% decrease in GDP. These are predictions approximately 90 days in - only going to get worse with time. When will his cronies step in a deem him unfit to rule or simply have him disappeared.

finance.yahoo.com

Russia admits it faces economic collapse over Putin’s war

Russia's economy has plunged into its worst crisis for almost three decades as the country is battered by Western sanctions, a leaked copy of the Kremlin's own forecasts shows.

Link:finance.yahoo.com/news/seize-300bn-fro...

Fact #1: Former Soviet Block nations were scared sh#tless after Russian aggression in Chechnya and Georgia and scrambled to get protection from NATO. They were all proven right when Russia without any provocation invaded Crimea in 2014, intervened in Syria to prop up a murderous dictator by bombing civilians and destroying once thriving cities like Aleppo and then launched the current colonial war against all of Ukraine. NATO's only threat to Russia is its ability to stop a Russian first strike with anti-ballistic missile defense systems. And the only reason that would be a threat to Russia is that it would enable NATO to intervene against Russia outside of the NATO umbrella. NATO effectively let Russia do as it pleased in Syria and has only provided Ukraine with barely enough defensive weapon support to keep Russia at bay.

Fact #2: Millions of Ukrainians took to the streets during the Maidan revolution. The Ukraine parliament had overwhelmingly approved a trade deal with the EU that was widely popular with Ukrainians. Yanukovych refused to sign the deal and instead moved to do a deal with Russia. The EU deal was years in the making and reflected the will of the Ukrainian people who saw their future with the EU and not with a rapidly increasingly authoritarian Russian regime under Putin. Yanukovych implemented a violent crackdown on protestors in an effort to crush his opposition. It backfired and lead to Yanukovych having to flee the country.

Fact #3: The Donetsk separatist movement has direct roots in Russian neo-Nazi groups.
Pavel Gubarev was a member of the Russian National Unity party, a neo-Nazi paramilitary group that in large part started the separatist movement in Donetsk. The Donetsk referendum was a sham much like the Crimean referendum.

Fact #4: The Odessa fire was not the result of Right Sector paramilitaries forcing peaceful protestors into the Trade Union building, setting it on fire and then blocking people from escaping. This is a lie. The violence started when soccer fans were ambushed by pro-Russian activists. The pro-Russian activists wore helmets and had bats and guns. Local law enforcement initially stood by and allowed the attack on the soccer fans to proceed with impunity. Members of the Right Sector and regular Odessans came to the defense of the soccer fans and started having violent clashes with the pro-Russian activists. There is some debate whether both groups were armed and ready to fight each other on the date of the Odessa fire. The pro-Russian activists were losing in pitched street battles and retreated to the Trade Union building. Once inside the Trade Union building, the pro-Russian activists began shooting and throwing Molotov cocktails at the pro-Ukrainian forces outside the building. Fire started when someone tried to throw a Molotov cocktail through a closed window. Pro-Ukrainian activists did all they could to get people out of the building and saved dozens, but the pro-Russain forces had barricaded themselves inside the building, preventing many from being able to escape.

Fact #5: The Minsk agreements were a joke because the separatists had no control over their paramilitaries who would violate every cease fire almost as soon as it went into effect. And the separatists had no intention of becoming integrated into the Ukrainian state. At almost every turn, they made it clear that they would use the Minsk agreement to try to disrupt the Ukraine government on behalf of Russian interests. The Donbas war persisted only because Russia was arming separatists. And ironically, Russian now cries fowl when the West arms Ukraine.

I wonder how much support the U.S. would give the Ukraine if Trump was still President since he loves kissing Putin's butt.

A lot of the pro-Putes have dropped off, as Russia's enormous failures and atrocities mounted. Every person (except carmine9, apparently) has a humiliation/embarrassment threshold, and it appears to have been met for most of the thread's earlier Putin/Russia admirers.

We have seen some name changing, though. "Eff yeah" and "Think about it...", for example, are new incarnations of pro-Pute scumbags of yore. But their new personalities have been largely ineffectual and even cringeworthy, like in the recent discussion where a Russian-separatist politician's wild prediction that NATO was going to attack India was somehow used as an example of truthful reporting in Indian media in comparison to Western media.