I am about as skeptical as they come - wtf is this?
It's been 4 years since the ProPublica piece and they have NO evidence of athletes using banned substances, no additional violations? What a waste of $$$. CAS is going to greatly reduce this suspension.
I wanted cheaters busted, not more distant smoke signals. Yawn.
Amazing. Letsrun.com posters with this news still obsessed with accussing east Africans of doping to almost justify Salazar's crime. These people have deep ego and insecurity issues...like a form of narcissism. If someone cut them off in traffic this morning they'd probably find some way of linking it to imagined east African doping. Fragile fragile egos.
Banana Bread wrote:
uysventura wrote:
Looking forward to Mo pretending he's never met Salazar in his life.
This made me chuckle. At the pre Chicago interview he will probably say Salazar just held the stopwatch
? good one?
This is just the tip of the iceberg mate. Do you really think that these athletes would travel such obscure locations for something that does nothing?
excat2 wrote:
From what I've read in the decision, the case for the L-carnitine infusions is not what I would call bulletproof. IThe only clear case where it was clearly over the limit was Steve Magness. USADA spends pages arguing/discussing if Magness was an "athlete" under USATF standards which, as far as a real doping violation goes, I could care less about. Magness was not an elite competitive athlete at the time.
USADA standards then place the burden of proof on Salazar to prove he administered under 50 ml (the maximum allowed infusion). I'm not clearing Salazar, but there is zero proof any of the real NOP athletes got over 50 ml, and in fact there are emails differentiating what could be done with Magness versus the competitive athletes, and inquiries by Salazar to USADA what the limits were.
I'll have to read the testosterone stuff later, but the L-carnitine section of the decision, while not unbelievable, is also far from a smoking gun of anything with the exception of the Magness infusion.
The vast majority of posts in this thread are ignorant nonsense. It's like nobody has bothered to actually read the AAA's report but are commenting on it anyway. Some thoughts on each of the charges...
Administration of a Prohibited Method (with respect to an infusion in excess of the applicable limit)
You are correcting regarding the L-carnitine infusions. The “athlete” who received the over-limit L-carnitine infusion was Steve Magness. He didn't race for a year following the infusion and didn't consider himself an athlete at the time. As you mentioned, there is zero evidence that any of the other NOP athletes received over-limit infusions, and in fact, all of the available information suggests they received 45mL infusions.
This entire charge hinges on whether Steve Magness should be classified as an athlete, yet people see "infusion in excess of the applicable limit" and immediately assume that most/all of the NOP athletes were receiving over-limit infusions which simply isn't the case. USADA got Salazar on a technicality here, nothing more.
Tampering and/or attempted tampering with NOP athletes’ doping control process
The tampering charge isn't much of a bombshell either. There was clearly confusion on Salazar's part regarding the difference between an infusion and an injection and the rules surrounding each. It's obvious from the emails he sent to USADA that he believed the transfusions his athletes received qualified as injections and thus did not require a TUE, nor did they need to be declared in the event of a drug test.
There's this notion that Salazar was secretive and attempted to hide things from USADA, but in fact he was in contact with them regarding rule compliance more than any other coach.
Trafficking and/or Attempted Trafficking of testosterone
The trafficking charge is perhaps the most minor. Salazar administered testosterone to his sons to ascertain whether someone could sabotage one of his athletes after a race. If you actually read the report, you'll see that the experiment wasn't conducted to determine how much testosterone could be applied to an athlete without triggering a positive test, contrary to the narrative that is typically promoted on this site. The only reason for this charge is that the experiment failed to meet the standard of "acceptable justification."
This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. None of this is new information, but most people seem to be overreacting and speculating wildly instead of sticking to the facts. It's sickening to see people celebrating this news while all of the NOP athletes get needlessly dragged through the mud. I am hoping Salazar wins his appeal, and in the meantime, I wish NOP the best of luck during the remainder of the World Championships.
NOP fan wrote:
excat2 wrote:
From what I've read in the decision, the case for the L-carnitine infusions is not what I would call bulletproof. IThe only clear case where it was clearly over the limit was Steve Magness. USADA spends pages arguing/discussing if Magness was an "athlete" under USATF standards which, as far as a real doping violation goes, I could care less about. Magness was not an elite competitive athlete at the time.
USADA standards then place the burden of proof on Salazar to prove he administered under 50 ml (the maximum allowed infusion). I'm not clearing Salazar, but there is zero proof any of the real NOP athletes got over 50 ml, and in fact there are emails differentiating what could be done with Magness versus the competitive athletes, and inquiries by Salazar to USADA what the limits were.
I'll have to read the testosterone stuff later, but the L-carnitine section of the decision, while not unbelievable, is also far from a smoking gun of anything with the exception of the Magness infusion.
The vast majority of posts in this thread are ignorant nonsense. It's like nobody has bothered to actually read the AAA's report but are commenting on it anyway. Some thoughts on each of the charges...
Administration of a Prohibited Method (with respect to an infusion in excess of the applicable limit)
You are correcting regarding the L-carnitine infusions. The “athlete” who received the over-limit L-carnitine infusion was Steve Magness. He didn't race for a year following the infusion and didn't consider himself an athlete at the time. As you mentioned, there is zero evidence that any of the other NOP athletes received over-limit infusions, and in fact, all of the available information suggests they received 45mL infusions.
This entire charge hinges on whether Steve Magness should be classified as an athlete, yet people see "infusion in excess of the applicable limit" and immediately assume that most/all of the NOP athletes were receiving over-limit infusions which simply isn't the case. USADA got Salazar on a technicality here, nothing more.
Tampering and/or attempted tampering with NOP athletes’ doping control process
The tampering charge isn't much of a bombshell either. There was clearly confusion on Salazar's part regarding the difference between an infusion and an injection and the rules surrounding each. It's obvious from the emails he sent to USADA that he believed the transfusions his athletes received qualified as injections and thus did not require a TUE, nor did they need to be declared in the event of a drug test.
There's this notion that Salazar was secretive and attempted to hide things from USADA, but in fact he was in contact with them regarding rule compliance more than any other coach.
Trafficking and/or Attempted Trafficking of testosterone
The trafficking charge is perhaps the most minor. Salazar administered testosterone to his sons to ascertain whether someone could sabotage one of his athletes after a race. If you actually read the report, you'll see that the experiment wasn't conducted to determine how much testosterone could be applied to an athlete without triggering a positive test, contrary to the narrative that is typically promoted on this site. The only reason for this charge is that the experiment failed to meet the standard of "acceptable justification."
This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. None of this is new information, but most people seem to be overreacting and speculating wildly instead of sticking to the facts. It's sickening to see people celebrating this news while all of the NOP athletes get needlessly dragged through the mud. I am hoping Salazar wins his appeal, and in the meantime, I wish NOP the best of luck during the remainder of the World Championships.
0/10. You're a Nike paid troll. ?
USADA was unable to prove that Galen Rupp continues to self administer L-Carnitine infusions before his marathon because he does it in secret.
Actually, USADA only has to prove that he used a needle in the window of the competition as there is a no needle policy.
Even lower amounts of a legal infusion is banned.
USADA! Check his veins in doping control after Chicago!
Yg102 wrote:
Amazing. Letsrun.com posters with this news still obsessed with accussing east Africans of doping to almost justify Salazar's crime. These people have deep ego and insecurity issues...like a form of narcissism. If someone cut them off in traffic this morning they'd probably find some way of linking it to imagined east African doping. Fragile fragile egos.
I've said it over and over and most recently when posters were discussing 'who is worse Kenya or Morocco?'
The answer is the USA. It's always been the USA
NOP fan wrote:
excat2 wrote:
From what I've read in the decision, the case for the L-carnitine infusions is not what I would call bulletproof. IThe only clear case where it was clearly over the limit was Steve Magness. USADA spends pages arguing/discussing if Magness was an "athlete" under USATF standards which, as far as a real doping violation goes, I could care less about. Magness was not an elite competitive athlete at the time.
USADA standards then place the burden of proof on Salazar to prove he administered under 50 ml (the maximum allowed infusion). I'm not clearing Salazar, but there is zero proof any of the real NOP athletes got over 50 ml, and in fact there are emails differentiating what could be done with Magness versus the competitive athletes, and inquiries by Salazar to USADA what the limits were.
I'll have to read the testosterone stuff later, but the L-carnitine section of the decision, while not unbelievable, is also far from a smoking gun of anything with the exception of the Magness infusion.
The vast majority of posts in this thread are ignorant nonsense. It's like nobody has bothered to actually read the AAA's report but are commenting on it anyway. Some thoughts on each of the charges...
Administration of a Prohibited Method (with respect to an infusion in excess of the applicable limit)
You are correcting regarding the L-carnitine infusions. The “athlete” who received the over-limit L-carnitine infusion was Steve Magness. He didn't race for a year following the infusion and didn't consider himself an athlete at the time. As you mentioned, there is zero evidence that any of the other NOP athletes received over-limit infusions, and in fact, all of the available information suggests they received 45mL infusions.
This entire charge hinges on whether Steve Magness should be classified as an athlete, yet people see "infusion in excess of the applicable limit" and immediately assume that most/all of the NOP athletes were receiving over-limit infusions which simply isn't the case. USADA got Salazar on a technicality here, nothing more.
Tampering and/or attempted tampering with NOP athletes’ doping control process
The tampering charge isn't much of a bombshell either. There was clearly confusion on Salazar's part regarding the difference between an infusion and an injection and the rules surrounding each. It's obvious from the emails he sent to USADA that he believed the transfusions his athletes received qualified as injections and thus did not require a TUE, nor did they need to be declared in the event of a drug test.
There's this notion that Salazar was secretive and attempted to hide things from USADA, but in fact he was in contact with them regarding rule compliance more than any other coach.
Trafficking and/or Attempted Trafficking of testosterone
The trafficking charge is perhaps the most minor. Salazar administered testosterone to his sons to ascertain whether someone could sabotage one of his athletes after a race. If you actually read the report, you'll see that the experiment wasn't conducted to determine how much testosterone could be applied to an athlete without triggering a positive test, contrary to the narrative that is typically promoted on this site. The only reason for this charge is that the experiment failed to meet the standard of "acceptable justification."
This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. None of this is new information, but most people seem to be overreacting and speculating wildly instead of sticking to the facts. It's sickening to see people celebrating this news while all of the NOP athletes get needlessly dragged through the mud. I am hoping Salazar wins his appeal, and in the meantime, I wish NOP the best of luck during the remainder of the World Championships.
I'm surprised you haven't argued the "Coleman defence", that Alberto should have been let off on a technicality. What was the USADA thinking? That he was actually promoting doping amongst his athletes! Er - yes.
Armstronglivs wrote:
NOP fan wrote:
The vast majority of posts in this thread are ignorant nonsense. It's like nobody has bothered to actually read the AAA's report but are commenting on it anyway. Some thoughts on each of the charges...
Administration of a Prohibited Method (with respect to an infusion in excess of the applicable limit)
You are correcting regarding the L-carnitine infusions. The “athlete” who received the over-limit L-carnitine infusion was Steve Magness. He didn't race for a year following the infusion and didn't consider himself an athlete at the time. As you mentioned, there is zero evidence that any of the other NOP athletes received over-limit infusions, and in fact, all of the available information suggests they received 45mL infusions.
This entire charge hinges on whether Steve Magness should be classified as an athlete, yet people see "infusion in excess of the applicable limit" and immediately assume that most/all of the NOP athletes were receiving over-limit infusions which simply isn't the case. USADA got Salazar on a technicality here, nothing more.
Tampering and/or attempted tampering with NOP athletes’ doping control process
The tampering charge isn't much of a bombshell either. There was clearly confusion on Salazar's part regarding the difference between an infusion and an injection and the rules surrounding each. It's obvious from the emails he sent to USADA that he believed the transfusions his athletes received qualified as injections and thus did not require a TUE, nor did they need to be declared in the event of a drug test.
There's this notion that Salazar was secretive and attempted to hide things from USADA, but in fact he was in contact with them regarding rule compliance more than any other coach.
Trafficking and/or Attempted Trafficking of testosterone
The trafficking charge is perhaps the most minor. Salazar administered testosterone to his sons to ascertain whether someone could sabotage one of his athletes after a race. If you actually read the report, you'll see that the experiment wasn't conducted to determine how much testosterone could be applied to an athlete without triggering a positive test, contrary to the narrative that is typically promoted on this site. The only reason for this charge is that the experiment failed to meet the standard of "acceptable justification."
This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. None of this is new information, but most people seem to be overreacting and speculating wildly instead of sticking to the facts. It's sickening to see people celebrating this news while all of the NOP athletes get needlessly dragged through the mud. I am hoping Salazar wins his appeal, and in the meantime, I wish NOP the best of luck during the remainder of the World Championships.
I'm surprised you haven't argued the "Coleman defence", that Alberto should have been let off on a technicality. What was the USADA thinking? That he was actually promoting doping amongst his athletes! Er - yes.
Legal PED use =/= doping. Get over it. And maybe read the damn report.
£££££ wrote:
Curiouser wrote:
Does she have TUE's?
They have been saying for the last several years that just about every athlete at NOP is coached by him. My gut feeling is that's just a cover to get the heat off.
Who is “They”? You can even see here on LetsRun people posting about how Julian coaches at least half the team if not more. Seems like grasping at straws at this point. Being banned for staff experiments years ago seems like a terrible reason to take 4 years from someone’s career
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
NOP fan wrote:
excat2 wrote:
From what I've read in the decision, the case for the L-carnitine infusions is not what I would call bulletproof. IThe only clear case where it was clearly over the limit was Steve Magness. USADA spends pages arguing/discussing if Magness was an "athlete" under USATF standards which, as far as a real doping violation goes, I could care less about. Magness was not an elite competitive athlete at the time.
USADA standards then place the burden of proof on Salazar to prove he administered under 50 ml (the maximum allowed infusion). I'm not clearing Salazar, but there is zero proof any of the real NOP athletes got over 50 ml, and in fact there are emails differentiating what could be done with Magness versus the competitive athletes, and inquiries by Salazar to USADA what the limits were.
I'll have to read the testosterone stuff later, but the L-carnitine section of the decision, while not unbelievable, is also far from a smoking gun of anything with the exception of the Magness infusion.
The vast majority of posts in this thread are ignorant nonsense. It's like nobody has bothered to actually read the AAA's report but are commenting on it anyway. Some thoughts on each of the charges...
Administration of a Prohibited Method (with respect to an infusion in excess of the applicable limit)
You are correcting regarding the L-carnitine infusions. The “athlete” who received the over-limit L-carnitine infusion was Steve Magness. He didn't race for a year following the infusion and didn't consider himself an athlete at the time. As you mentioned, there is zero evidence that any of the other NOP athletes received over-limit infusions, and in fact, all of the available information suggests they received 45mL infusions.
This entire charge hinges on whether Steve Magness should be classified as an athlete, yet people see "infusion in excess of the applicable limit" and immediately assume that most/all of the NOP athletes were receiving over-limit infusions which simply isn't the case. USADA got Salazar on a technicality here, nothing more.
Tampering and/or attempted tampering with NOP athletes’ doping control process
The tampering charge isn't much of a bombshell either. There was clearly confusion on Salazar's part regarding the difference between an infusion and an injection and the rules surrounding each. It's obvious from the emails he sent to USADA that he believed the transfusions his athletes received qualified as injections and thus did not require a TUE, nor did they need to be declared in the event of a drug test.
There's this notion that Salazar was secretive and attempted to hide things from USADA, but in fact he was in contact with them regarding rule compliance more than any other coach.
Trafficking and/or Attempted Trafficking of testosterone
The trafficking charge is perhaps the most minor. Salazar administered testosterone to his sons to ascertain whether someone could sabotage one of his athletes after a race. If you actually read the report, you'll see that the experiment wasn't conducted to determine how much testosterone could be applied to an athlete without triggering a positive test, contrary to the narrative that is typically promoted on this site. The only reason for this charge is that the experiment failed to meet the standard of "acceptable justification."
This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. None of this is new information, but most people seem to be overreacting and speculating wildly instead of sticking to the facts. It's sickening to see people celebrating this news while all of the NOP athletes get needlessly dragged through the mud. I am hoping Salazar wins his appeal, and in the meantime, I wish NOP the best of luck during the remainder of the World Championships.
The craziest thing about this “bombshell” news is that absolutely no new information or accusations have been made. All this is doing is revealing everyone’s true colors. Nick Willis on Twitter is a prime example: “Justice. I’m tired of having to hide my thoughts.....”
You have a bunch of people who either read it and understand it’s all years in the past, and then the ones who think everybody is a doper, already hate Salazar, and just want to be justified in their terribly cynical outlook on life.
fortherecord wrote:
NOP fan wrote:
The vast majority of posts in this thread are ignorant nonsense. It's like nobody has bothered to actually read the AAA's report but are commenting on it anyway. Some thoughts on each of the charges...
Administration of a Prohibited Method (with respect to an infusion in excess of the applicable limit)
You are correcting regarding the L-carnitine infusions. The “athlete” who received the over-limit L-carnitine infusion was Steve Magness. He didn't race for a year following the infusion and didn't consider himself an athlete at the time. As you mentioned, there is zero evidence that any of the other NOP athletes received over-limit infusions, and in fact, all of the available information suggests they received 45mL infusions.
This entire charge hinges on whether Steve Magness should be classified as an athlete, yet people see "infusion in excess of the applicable limit" and immediately assume that most/all of the NOP athletes were receiving over-limit infusions which simply isn't the case. USADA got Salazar on a technicality here, nothing more.
Tampering and/or attempted tampering with NOP athletes’ doping control process
The tampering charge isn't much of a bombshell either. There was clearly confusion on Salazar's part regarding the difference between an infusion and an injection and the rules surrounding each. It's obvious from the emails he sent to USADA that he believed the transfusions his athletes received qualified as injections and thus did not require a TUE, nor did they need to be declared in the event of a drug test.
There's this notion that Salazar was secretive and attempted to hide things from USADA, but in fact he was in contact with them regarding rule compliance more than any other coach.
Trafficking and/or Attempted Trafficking of testosterone
The trafficking charge is perhaps the most minor. Salazar administered testosterone to his sons to ascertain whether someone could sabotage one of his athletes after a race. If you actually read the report, you'll see that the experiment wasn't conducted to determine how much testosterone could be applied to an athlete without triggering a positive test, contrary to the narrative that is typically promoted on this site. The only reason for this charge is that the experiment failed to meet the standard of "acceptable justification."
This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. None of this is new information, but most people seem to be overreacting and speculating wildly instead of sticking to the facts. It's sickening to see people celebrating this news while all of the NOP athletes get needlessly dragged through the mud. I am hoping Salazar wins his appeal, and in the meantime, I wish NOP the best of luck during the remainder of the World Championships.
The craziest thing about this “bombshell” news is that absolutely no new information or accusations have been made. All this is doing is revealing everyone’s true colors. Nick Willis on Twitter is a prime example: “Justice. I’m tired of having to hide my thoughts.....”
You have a bunch of people who either read it and understand it’s all years in the past, and then the ones who think everybody is a doper, already hate Salazar, and just want to be justified in their terribly cynical outlook on life.
+1
Raddison wrote:
List of NOP athletes:
United States Galen Rupp
United States Jordan Hasay
United States Shannon Rowbury
Japan Suguru Osako
United States Craig Engels
United States Clayton Murphy
United States Eric Jenkins
Netherlands Sifan Hassan
Ethiopia Yomif Kejelcha
United States Donavan Brazier
Germany Konstanze Klosterhalfen
Australia Jessica Hull
Former members
United Kingdom Mo Farah
Canada Cam Levins
United States Dorian Ulrey
United States Tara Erdmann
United States Luke Puskedra
United States Dathan Ritzenhein
United States Mary Cain
United States Treniere Moser
United States Kara Goucher
United States Adam Goucher
United States Matthew Centrowitz, Jr.
All on the juice! Sorry, my head's spinning right now. Haven't been here in months but couldn't keep away once I heard. Devastating for British Athletics and the only American distance gold medal in recent years turns out to have been doped. Meanwhile, none of Salazar's athletes failed any tests which proves what we'd always known: they have sophisticated systems to avoid positives.
BAN THE LOT!!!
fortherecord wrote:
What happened is already spelled out on the open letter:
https://nikeoregonproject.com/blogs/news/35522561-alberto-open-letter-part-1
Why is this open letter from 2015, in the immediate wake of the Pro Publica and BBC stories, now dated July 24, 2019?
Ruprecht wrote:
If you are going to call Saladbar a sociopath, what do you call Phil Knight?
A psychopath. It's not a zero-sum game and this is Nike we're talking about.
Nickers11 wrote:
Why put out this release in the midst of the sport’s biggest event? We all know the sport has problems but it also needs to allow itself to be showcased - to sabotage it like this is just stupid and myopic.
No. This is what track is now. It took two years longer than it should have for this to even happen thanks to Salazar's inevitable legal appeals. Why wait one more day and soften the blow for that douche or anyone? The sport of athletics is shìt and Salazar is one of its chief sources of fiber. Blame him, not the media or the timing, for any fallout impacting the sport as a whole.
LM wrote:
I'm just baffled the reaction is magically stronger now despite no change in the actual available information.
Those are the people who knew the truth was almost surely not on their side, but wanted Salazar to be vindicated anyway because the status quo of unlikely times and performances is psychologically more preferable.
Most of the post here are the usual predictable flailing: The whataboutism ("East Africans are worse! The FDA bans harmless stuff!") and the minimizations by apologists who hinge their entire argument on the idea that the ban isn't based on anything new, as if the reasons for the ban were not clearly spelled out.
El Keniano wrote:
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
You're back! Coevett misses you.
Hardloper wrote:
looser rupp wrote:
It means Rupp and Mobot lose their medals.
That would be a great week for Bekele. 2:01 marathon and another Olympic medal!
I am surprised this wasn’t about Bekele found to use performance enhancing drugs since you don’t go from constantly DNF marathons to near record setting pace without assistance.
After reading Salazar’s statement, I am worried that this can drag out much longer. What a mess.
El Keniano wrote:
Raddison wrote:
List of NOP athletes:
United States Galen Rupp
United States Jordan Hasay
United States Shannon Rowbury
Japan Suguru Osako
United States Craig Engels
United States Clayton Murphy
United States Eric Jenkins
Netherlands Sifan Hassan
Ethiopia Yomif Kejelcha
United States Donavan Brazier
Germany Konstanze Klosterhalfen
Australia Jessica Hull
Former members
United Kingdom Mo Farah
Canada Cam Levins
United States Dorian Ulrey
United States Tara Erdmann
United States Luke Puskedra
United States Dathan Ritzenhein
United States Mary Cain
United States Treniere Moser
United States Kara Goucher
United States Adam Goucher
United States Matthew Centrowitz, Jr.
All on the juice! Sorry, my head's spinning right now. Haven't been here in months but couldn't keep away once I heard. Devastating for British Athletics and the only American distance gold medal in recent years turns out to have been doped. Meanwhile, none of Salazar's athletes failed any tests which proves what we'd always known: they have sophisticated systems to avoid positives.
BAN THE LOT!!!
Comedy genius.
Bet there hasn't been a day you haven't been on here posting under different names. But welcome back to this handle, bit odd you didn't bring it back a week or so ago when there was a documentary on Doha Kenyans EPOing it to the max.
Big deal about Farah, it's not like it's new news given his Jama Aden links.
Irish gymnast shows you can have sex in the "anti-sex" cardboard beds in the Olympic village (video)
Finishing a mountain stage in the Tour De France vs running a marathon: Which is harder?
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
Per sources, Colorado expected to hire NAU assistant coach Jarred Cornfield as head xc coach
George Mills' dad: "Watching athletics is the worst on the planet."
Serious question: Does anyone think Kamala Harris can actually win? Seems very unlikely to me...