Full Shelby Houlihan Report is Out from CAS

You should take my advice cowboy — you might actually see the proof right before your eyes.

The Cranny thing was funny too!

C Freirichs 2017 London to 2021 Tokyo is good too!

shirtboy2021 wrote:

Health giving drugs?

Yes that is what the vast vast vast majority of drugs are created for. Where have you been for the last few centuries?

I think she’s guilty but I’ve seen much crazier transformations than hers. She’s just much more lean now lol. Go look at SAFP from her first Olympics until now. She’s put on 20lbs of pure muscle lol.

The dead eyes is dumb. She’s always had a very weird look to her face lol. It’s just skinnier and more hollowed out than years prior. From just her face I’d say she’s more likely to be a crackhead if I didn’t know who she was haha

Bummbull wrote:

She's so guilty.

What's crazy is that she probably thinks she's innocent as EVERYONE else is probably on something as well. It's like she's justifying her use as being fine as you have to use something to be one of the top performers.

I watched the documentary Screwball recently and it's nuts that these mega rich athletes would be working with shady characters to get their drugs and no wonder some get caught as there's a loose cannon that can't keep their mouth shut. Or, the source of the drugs is not the best and there could be contamination.

What's also interesting about the documentary was that many athletes start taking something at an early age like in high school and their parents are the ones pushing for it!

Yes she is guilty but no proof of cheating.

And where have you been that a good number of those drugs are monitored, restricted, or banned when the question of performance is involved, not health.

EPO certainly ‘health giving’ to use your phrase. Obviously not legal for endurance athletes, which is agreed to by them in their sport’s governing bodies. But ‘sabotage’, right? Having rules at all is sabotage

I think everyone understands at this point the distinction that you cant seem to grasp here

Yeah im not interested in body progression, people go from not being pro athletes to being pro athletes, it's fine.

I am concerned about Shelby's seemingly limitless upward progression starting in 2018. She was a mid pack global runner in 2016 and 17 and then all of a sudden, she couldn't be beaten and she got faster and faster and faster.

American records blown away, 9 US Titles, a 10K cross title followed up by a 2 Mile indoor US title. Shelby was seriously shaping up to be one of the greatest runners of all time, and it seemed like--relative to what she became--it was from very very humble beginnings.

you dont need a ‘mens rea’ here, sparky, this is Night Court not a criminal act

unbelief wrote:

You should take my advice cowboy — you might actually see the proof right before your eyes.

The Cranny thing was funny too!

C Freirichs 2017 London to 2021 Tokyo is good too!

I was looking at the Frerichs comparison too and noticed quite a change, although I think her transformation was more recent than Shelby's. It was very noticeable from say summer 2020 to the Olympics.

If I were betting, I would bet that Frerichs and Houlihan were on the same regimen, possibly Cranny too. I think Schweizer is innocent though.

rojo wrote:

I'm only halfway through it. I got to admit the fact that she refused to wear the carbon shoes really makes me believe she is much more likely to be guilty than if she did wear them.

This was a typo by rojo. He meant to say much less likely.

It logically makes zero sense that you'd dope with drugs but not wear the shoes. Unless it's a super elaborate humble-brag type of coverrup. Yes I know this type of stories shouldn't impact the evidence but I'm just telling you my thoughts.

Why in the hell if you are looking to cut corners wouldn't you wear the Carbon Plates?

Again, I'm only halfway through it but it looks like she had a former lab employee testify on her behalf.

The two likely aren't related.

It's far more believable to me that the shoes were to measure against previous performances in standard shoes vs. the super shoes. I doubt it had anything to do with integrity and was intended, rather simply, as a measuring stick.

i think this regimen they have works for bigger runs slimming down vs KS whos always been tiny

unbelief wrote:

And where have you been that a good number of those drugs are monitored, restricted, or banned when the question of performance is involved, not health.

EPO certainly ‘health giving’ to use your phrase. Obviously not legal for endurance athletes, which is agreed to by them in their sport’s governing bodies. But ‘sabotage’, right? Having rules at all is sabotage

I think everyone understands at this point the distinction that you cant seem to grasp here

Exactly but still for health and not causing the dead eye of drug use.

Do follow the posts or take a few drugs to solve your health problem of lack of concentration .

And did you say “ having rules at all is sabotage”?

Not sure if there is a drug to solve that stupidity.

Monkeyoo wrote:

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/news/black-girls-viewed-as-less-innocent-than-white-girls-georgetown-law-research-finds-2/

This is related to the reason that Shelby received such a staunch defense by some here.

Oh! race absolutely plays a role in this! But it's more than that because I don't think Galen or Shannon or any of the white NOpers would be getting any sympathy if they are ever caught.

I think BTC billed themselves on social media as a fun loving group of (predominantly) white women, living a happy life of doing what they love. It was idyllic and they were relatable, posting about their close friendships, traveling the world, their beaus, and their pets. They were the white American girls we aspire to be, and hold up in the media. Not a secretive suspicious group of seemingly unfriendly and callous people.

Curious why you think Schweizer is clean while the others are dirty? She’s run 14:26, just a few seconds off Houlihan’s AR.

jewbacca wrote:

This makes for a compelling hypothesis, yes. Where is the data backing it up? I'm sorry, but without peer-reviewed studies, this isn't going to fly.

For example, here's an easy way to refute this expert witness' claim. I found in the literature a C13 for soy of -26%. Endogenous steroid was -19% in the Houlihan case. IIRC domestic pork is in the same range. Hers was measured at less than -23%. How does a 10% increase in soy feed swing the C13 numbers so far?

There is peer reviewed literature that shows soy and other C3 feed produces a high IRMS delta than corn. That's likely enough to convince experts that a shift to soy -could- explain the discrepancy.

See:

for example

Most litigation is going to operate outside the realm of information covered exactly by the lit, of course, but I think there's enough evidence to support this hypothesis as plausible.

However, I think the whole C3/C4 argument is superseded by the need to that you were getting pork that was tainted somehow with uncastrated pig parts. If we had evidence the food truck was buying from sketchy suppliers then I have no issue believe they feed them all sorts of random-nonstandard crap and we should have zero intuition about IRMS values.

Also, I think the argument about supply chain disruption during the pandemic makes some sense. We really have no idea what pigs are being fed. Soy is ubiquitous as animal feed in the US so I have to give it some credence.

If all antidoping methods are this crappy I'm not sure what to think about the whole institution

Where is Clean Sport Collective wrote:

Monkeyoo wrote:

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/news/black-girls-viewed-as-less-innocent-than-white-girls-georgetown-law-research-finds-2/

This is related to the reason that Shelby received such a staunch defense by some here.

Oh! race absolutely plays a role in this! But it's more than that because I don't think Galen or Shannon or any of the white NOpers would be getting any sympathy if they are ever caught.

I think BTC billed themselves on social media as a fun loving group of (predominantly) white women, living a happy life of doing what they love. It was idyllic and they were relatable, posting about their close friendships, traveling the world, their beaus, and their pets. They were the white American girls we aspire to be, and hold up in the media. Not a secretive suspicious group of seemingly unfriendly and callous people.

Not to mention the fact that they started really pushing merch, so there's the whole aspirational angle of saying "I, a normal person, can be just like [insert BTC athlete here]," on top of the whole motif you already laid out - of course there's going to be a more spirited defense.

Note - NOP started merch around the same timeframe but was shuttered shortly thereafter IIRC, I think they had 2-3 comparatively successful clothing releases but I could be wrong.

Rocky Mtns wrote:

Curious why you think Schweizer is clean while the others are dirty? She’s run 14:26, just a few seconds off Houlihan’s AR.

Not OP but she's from Missouri's interior (colleen doesn't count) and has bad form. People assume she's clean because she's so unrefined. Personally, I think her performance in spite of that lack of efficiency lends a larger case in favor of her being dirty (when compared against the rest of BTC).

Rocky Mtns wrote:

Curious why you think Schweizer is clean while the others are dirty? She’s run 14:26, just a few seconds off Houlihan’s AR.

Let me rephrase. Schweizer did not have the same drastic physical transformation that Shelby and Courtney did. Frerichs' testimony was also suspicious to me.

This thread could have been locked after this (the 4th) post. You add up the probabilities of all those and you're probably ending up in the 1 in more than a billion chance.

We have no idea what farmers are shooting into their livestock.

Read stuff from the Veterinary Residues committee .