Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Training Advice/Discussion

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4 days ago 07/08/2024 8:37pm EDT

re: jecht

jecht wrote:
Re: pace
I've found that just varying the sub-threshold pace-by-time also helps--i.e. if you're able to do 3x10 one day but only 2x7 48 hours later that will still give you *some* residual effect, even if it's not the same as doing 3x10, EZ, 3x10, EZ, etc. That way you can fit it into your schedule to some degree...if not perfectly.

Spot on. As others have said, we’re after a threshold state. It makes just as much sense to adjust the length of reps as the pace of reps. Said another way, if a workout is overcooking you it is just as reasonable to conclude that the reps were too long as a reps were too fast.

4 days ago 07/08/2024 11:22pm EDT

re: superthreadpdf

superthreadpdf wrote:
jecht wrote:
I'll just refrain from asking dumb questions and re-read the threshold thread from page 1. I wish there was a way to search within a given thread for a keyword, for instance. That would clarify things w/o having to ask the same question again (even by accident, I can see how it would annoy others).
An awesome contribution that everyone will love you for: scrape this thread, arrange the posts into a formatted text file, delete every post by lexel and coggan, and share a PDF. That gets you keyword search AND the respect you're seeking!
Really though, I think you would benefit from posting less and reading more! You seem keen to participate but are barely doing the training as prescribed, so your posts don't add much to the discussion. I realize that's because you listened to the advice of others, but it was a case of the blind leading the blind IMO. If you read more you'll figure out what you need to do.

Appreciate your honesty!

4 days ago 07/09/2024 10:06am EDT

re: Curious_Cat

Curious_Cat wrote:
SubLTer wrote:
Try the arm band instead of chest strap. I don't know why more runners don't wear them. So much more comfortable and convenient than chest straps with much better accuracy than watches.
I've used Polar Verity Sense for years. Also check out Coros and Stroop arm bands
Are armbands really that good even for hard runs? Aren't they using an optical sensor?
I'm actually interested. I'm still using a wrist HRM. They're fine for easy runs, but for faster runs, they're not reliable at all.

Very thorough review from DC Rainmaker guy who knows his way around HR straps/watches/bands. He did head to head comparison of arm band versus chest strap and concluded:
"In other words, for this outdoor interval run, the Polar Verity Sense was spot-on with the chest straps and other sensors, despite the challenging intensity shifts."

I especially like the arm band for cold weather days Nordic XC skiing . Band sensor stays toasty wrapped around bicep (which is huge of course).

dcrainmaker.com

Polar Verity Sense (Optical HR Sensor Band) In-Depth Review

@dcrainmakerblog

Polar has launched an updated version of their standalone optical HR sensor, taking the existing Polar OH1 and adding new features and capabilities, and re-branding it as the Verity Sense. For those familiar with my reviews &...

Link:www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/02/polar-veri...

4 days ago 07/09/2024 10:56am EDT

re: jma

Which is better, another workout or a 5k?

Last week I replaced one of the workouts with parkrun in 17:40. I can do parkrun again this week. Is it too much? Not the right pace for this training method?

4 days ago 07/09/2024 11:53am EDT

re: 352414242425

The TSS from the usual sub-threshold session will be slightly higher than a parkrun, and the recovery arguably quicker, but racing is fun and also good practice for the mental/tactical/pacing side of fitness which CTL doesn't reflect. So do the parkrun if you want, spoc has definitely done parkruns back-to-back occasionally in the past and you can see his improvement for yourself.

4 days ago 07/09/2024 12:43pm EDT

re: MrCarmady

MrCarmady wrote:
The TSS from the usual sub-threshold session will be slightly higher than a parkrun, and the recovery arguably quicker, but racing is fun and also good practice for the mental/tactical/pacing side of fitness which CTL doesn't reflect. So do the parkrun if you want, spoc has definitely done parkruns back-to-back occasionally in the past and you can see his improvement for yourself.

Would a 5K TT not have more TSS than a ST session?

Maybe it would depend ability? e.g. for some, 10*3 mins may be 10*1K, for slower runners, 10*3 mins maybe closer to 5K in total.

4 days ago 07/09/2024 12:49pm EDT

re: MrCarmady

My last session of 10x3 minutes was aimed at 6:10 pace which works out around 4.85 miles, whereas parkrun is about 3 miles.

4 days ago 07/09/2024 12:52pm EDT

re: 3567642145

3567642145 wrote:
My last session of 10x3 minutes was aimed at 6:10 pace which works out around 4.85 miles, whereas parkrun is about 3 miles.

I would think that 3 miles at continous 5K pace, is harder than 4.85 miles at circa 10K pace broken up with lots of rest.

4 days ago 07/09/2024 12:54pm EDT

re: Alfie

Alfie wrote:
3567642145 wrote:
My last session of 10x3 minutes was aimed at 6:10 pace which works out around 4.85 miles, whereas parkrun is about 3 miles.
I would think that 3 miles at continous 5K pace, is harder than 4.85 miles at circa 10K pace broken up with lots of rest.

It definitely is but I'm trying to figure out which provides the most benefit. 6:10 was my half pace a few years ago. My last 10k was 5:55.

4 days ago 07/09/2024 1:50pm EDT

re: 3567642145

3567642145 wrote:
Alfie wrote:
I would think that 3 miles at continous 5K pace, is harder than 4.85 miles at circa 10K pace broken up with lots of rest.
It definitely is but I'm trying to figure out which provides the most benefit. 6:10 was my half pace a few years ago. My last 10k was 5:55.

The 30 minute sub threshold session provides a higher TSS. The 5km race provides a more race specific benefit. Both are beneficial. You should definitely run a race every so often to keep in touch with the hard effort as well as to check your fitness and potentially adjust your threshold.

10x3min for you is going to give very close to 50 TSS. If it is truly sub T then it will be just under 50. I would estimate your threshold from your 5km to be around 6:07/mi, so 6:10/mi would be 99% of Threshold. This would give around 49 TSS.

Your 17:40 5km would be 1060 seconds at 108% of threshold. That would give 34-35 TSS.

4 days ago 07/09/2024 2:09pm EDT

re: 352414242425

352414242425 wrote:
Which is better, another workout or a 5k?

Long term sub threshold workouts are better - that's the whole point of the thread. But you should still race occasionally - that's the whole point of training.

4 days ago 07/09/2024 5:21pm EDT

re: a blast from the past

a blast from the past wrote:
352414242425 wrote:
Which is better, another workout or a 5k?
Long term sub threshold workouts are better - that's the whole point of the thread. But you should still race occasionally - that's the whole point of training.

Long term threshold workouts at LT2 lactate level is the best.And I agree you should still occasionally race.

3 days ago 07/09/2024 10:37pm EDT

re: 352414242425

352414242425 wrote:
Which is better, another workout or a 5k?
Last week I replaced one of the workouts with parkrun in 17:40. I can do parkrun again this week. Is it too much? Not the right pace for this training method?

better replace all workouts with 5k TTs, enjoy!

3 days ago 07/10/2024 5:39am EDT

re: mocny gaz

Sirpoopy going backwards. Barely broke 16 in the 5k yesterday. Lack of proper training, speed work etc. been exposed. Hate to say I told you so, but those who know, told you so. When are you guys going to stop being so lame and realise this thread is a fraud. Especially for the 5k. The results show this has major flaws you guys don't care to admit it. This is the cult of not working hard in training.

3 days ago 07/10/2024 7:23am EDT

re: told you so

told you so wrote:
Sirpoopy going backwards. Barely broke 16 in the 5k yesterday. Lack of proper training, speed work etc. been exposed. Hate to say I told you so, but those who know, told you so. When are you guys going to stop being so lame and realise this thread is a fraud. Especially for the 5k. The results show this has major flaws you guys don't care to admit it. This is the cult of not working hard in training.

Perhaps do some self reflection and think about why this thread bothers you so much?

Alternatively, keep whining and sign up for some coaching by JS or cogg@n, you'll be sure to break sirpoc PRs in no time.

3 days ago 07/10/2024 7:44am EDT

re: moron

moron wrote:
Perhaps do some self reflection and think about why this thread bothers you so much?
Alternatively, keep whining and sign up for some coaching by JS or cogg@n, you'll be sure to break sirpoc PRs in no time.

The guy is a troll, this true. But 15:48 last night is very average comparison to the two 10ks he's just ran. Lack of training 5k pace is definitely a huge factor I think. Maybe that's why coach JS has had such success with his runners? The magic factor of 5k pace in training back down to 120bpm then repeat.

3 days ago 07/10/2024 8:12am EDT

re: guys is troll but....

Didn’t he just race a 10k a few days ago? When I race a 10k, I usually take the next several days easy. Backing up to race again so quickly is not easy.

3 days ago 07/10/2024 8:22am EDT

re: told you so

told you so wrote:
Sirpoopy going backwards. Barely broke 16 in the 5k yesterday. Lack of proper training, speed work etc. been exposed. Hate to say I told you so, but those who know, told you so. When are you guys going to stop being so lame and realise this thread is a fraud. Especially for the 5k. The results show this has major flaws you guys don't care to admit it. This is the cult of not working hard in training.

You do know what shingle is right? Running on a beach is more tricky than a track or road

3 days ago 07/10/2024 8:28am EDT

re: guys is troll but....

guys is troll but.... wrote:
moron wrote:
Perhaps do some self reflection and think about why this thread bothers you so much?
Alternatively, keep whining and sign up for some coaching by JS or cogg@n, you'll be sure to break sirpoc PRs in no time.
The guy is a troll, this true. But 15:48 last night is very average comparison to the two 10ks he's just ran. Lack of training 5k pace is definitely a huge factor I think. Maybe that's why coach JS has had such success with his runners? The magic factor of 5k pace in training back down to 120bpm then repeat.

Hello, Jan!

3 days ago 07/10/2024 8:46am EDT

re: told you so

told you so wrote:
Sirpoopy going backwards. Barely broke 16 in the 5k yesterday. Lack of proper training, speed work etc. been exposed. Hate to say I told you so, but those who know, told you so. When are you guys going to stop being so lame and realise this thread is a fraud. Especially for the 5k. The results show this has major flaws you guys don't care to admit it. This is the cult of not working hard in training.

What is YOUR training, though? What are you doing that sirpoc isn't? I don't claim to be an expert here, far from it, and am new at this. But at least some of us are trying to figure it out even if we fail at times.

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