"Pandemic of the unvaccinated" CONFIRMED

Harambe wrote:

Omg big new paper. Vaccines give similar memory B cell response to infection + vaccination “hybrid immunity.”

The only benefit to infection driven immunity is slightly higher circulating antibody levels for a few months after infection. In the long run… it’s equal.

“Natural immunity” again proves to be a raw deal compared to, uh, not getting COVID.

https://twitter.com/rishirajgoel/status/1448711974938763266?s=21

This is pretty big. If the only benefit to infection driven immunity is a few months of breakthru protection, it makes dosing everyone extremely important.

Also infection ALONE generated WEAKER responses than vaccines, especially against variants.

https://twitter.com/rishirajgoel/status/1448711990520676352?s=21

All these recovered people who think they’d don’t need to vax could be HIGH and DRY should a new variant come around.

There is simply no reason to avoid the vax. It’s becoming clearer by the day.

Harambe wrote:

Bullet_Proof wrote:

I simply disagree on the mandates aspect of it, and the severe livelihood punishments that are being pushed.

There are no federal mandates. I.e. you can test often if you'd prefer to not get the vaccine.

A private employer can make basically any rule they want. If an employer thinks "well, I don't want COVID spreading in the workplace, I'm gonna do whatever I can do stop that" then mandating the vaccine makes sense! If you and your employer disagree on something so basic -- the safety and health of your coworkers -- then yeah, you probably need to find a new place to work.

I fail to see how there are severe punishments being doled out unless you think workers should have more rights in the US -- i.e. for-cause firing only or something like that.

Beyond that, I am glad we are more in agreement. I don't think my position is that unreasonable.

joed|rty wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Omg big new paper. Vaccines give similar memory B cell response to infection + vaccination “hybrid immunity.”

The only benefit to infection driven immunity is slightly higher circulating antibody levels for a few months after infection. In the long run… it’s equal.

“Natural immunity” again proves to be a raw deal compared to, uh, not getting COVID.

https://twitter.com/rishirajgoel/status/1448711974938763266?s=21

This is pretty big. If the only benefit to infection driven immunity is a few months of breakthru protection, it makes dosing everyone extremely important.

Also infection ALONE generated WEAKER responses than vaccines, especially against variants.

https://twitter.com/rishirajgoel/status/1448711990520676352?s=21

All these recovered people who think they’d don’t need to vax could be HIGH and DRY should a new variant come around.

There is simply no reason to avoid the vax. It’s becoming clearer by the day.

Statistics show that natural immunity lasts longer and is more effective than vaccinated immunity. The reason for this is not all antibodies act on the same protein markers. The vaccines cover a handful while natural immunity covers the whole gamut. Want to see it in action, look at the disparity in case growth between places like Vermont and Maine versus places like New York and Massachusetts right now. The reason why cases and deaths are spiking in Vermont and Maine now that they are moving into heating season and not New York and Massachusetts even though they have higher vaccination rates in Vermont and Maine is because Vermont and Maine have low levels of naturally acquired immunity.

Vaccines offer incomplete protection. The only real robust protection comes from a naturally acquired infection at some point. Otherwise one will constantly be on the run from variants that evade vaccines because they are infecting cells through protein markers not covered by the vaccine (but are covered by antibodies from natural infection). The time it takes to get approval on vaccines that act on the new variant markers (they are running trials on vaccines that cover things like delta, but they won’t have approval on those for six months or more) means vaccines will be in a constant game of cat and mouse.

Bullet_Proof wrote:

That 700k death number is not a stone cold fact.

It really is, actually.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Are you really going to claim that 700,000 people died of ONLY covid - they were perfectly healthy and young -

All else being equal, if some of the victims in an auto wreck die and others survive, the dead are more likely to include aged people or fat people or people with heart trouble or diabetes or breathing disorders. Does that mean the auto wreck didn't kill them?

The "but for" test of civil litigation applies here: But for Covid-19, almost all of its fatalities would not have died when they did. And given that we're now nearing 750,000 Americans Covid-19 deaths, it is certainly accurate to say that Covid-19 caused the earlier-than-otherwise death of at least 700k of them.

and they only thing that happened was they contracted the sniffles?

Sniffles--a runny nose--is actually a rare symptom of Covid-19.

https://www.emersonhospital.org/articles/allergies-or-covid-19

joed|rty wrote:

Statistics show that natural immunity lasts longer and is more effective than vaccinated immunity. The reason for this is not all antibodies act on the same protein markers. The vaccines cover a handful while natural immunity covers the whole gamut. Want to see it in action, look at the disparity in case growth between places like Vermont and Maine versus places like New York and Massachusetts right now. The reason why cases and deaths are spiking in Vermont and Maine now that they are moving into heating season and not New York and Massachusetts even though they have higher vaccination rates in Vermont and Maine is because Vermont and Maine have low levels of naturally acquired immunity.

Vaccines offer incomplete protection. The only real robust protection comes from a naturally acquired infection at some point. Otherwise one will constantly be on the run from variants that evade vaccines because they are infecting cells through protein markers not covered by the vaccine (but are covered by antibodies from natural infection). The time it takes to get approval on vaccines that act on the new variant markers (they are running trials on vaccines that cover things like delta, but they won’t have approval on those for six months or more) means vaccines will be in a constant game of cat and mouse.

joed|rty wrote:

Statistics show that natural immunity lasts longer and is more effective than vaccinated immunity. The reason for this is not all antibodies act on the same protein markers. The vaccines cover a handful while natural immunity covers the whole gamut. Want to see it in action, look at the disparity in case growth between places like Vermont and Maine versus places like New York and Massachusetts right now. The reason why cases and deaths are spiking in Vermont and Maine now that they are moving into heating season and not New York and Massachusetts even though they have higher vaccination rates in Vermont and Maine is because Vermont and Maine have low levels of naturally acquired immunity.

Vaccines offer incomplete protection. The only real robust protection comes from a naturally acquired infection at some point. Otherwise one will constantly be on the run from variants that evade vaccines because they are infecting cells through protein markers not covered by the vaccine (but are covered by antibodies from natural infection). The time it takes to get approval on vaccines that act on the new variant markers (they are running trials on vaccines that cover things like delta, but they won’t have approval on those for six months or more) means vaccines will be in a constant game of cat and mouse.

Bullet_Proof wrote:

1.) I never said I consent to the vaccine mandate. That is THE policy that I am vehemently arguing against.

2.) Yes I am vaccinated to other diseases. You know why? Because those diseases can actually F you up. So it makes sense to get them. I am not opposed to vaccines in general. I am not opposed to even people experimenting on their bodies with this one. I am simply opposed to forced vaccination...

...especially when there are alternative solutions, including but not limited to: testing people before they come into the workplace everyday, taking temperature, having people fill out a visit request form before they enter the building. That would actually be a safer method to ensure that no one brings covid the workplace because science has shown that even vaccinated people are transmitting covid-19.

More solutions: wearing n-95 masks, sanitizing all surfaces. Social distancing, allowing remote work when applicable.

More solutions: staying home when anyone feels the slightest bit sick. Yes, this solution relies on trust and personal responsibility, but it is an additional solution nonetheless that can help contribute to your safety goal.

That 700k death number is not a stone cold fact. Are you really going to claim that 700,000 people died of ONLY covid - they were perfectly healthy and young - and they only thing that happened was they contracted the sniffles?

Bullet_Proof wrote:

Also, why do you care if unvaccinated people die? You seem to revel when prominent radio hosts die of covid. You're sending mixed signals.

Vaxed people do not need to worry! You've "moved on"! You are cultured, intellectual, and a member of the developed world, as you put it.

But something tells me that even if the US reaches 98% vaccination rate, we will not return to normal. A friend's company is 100% vaccinated and they still are required to wear masks. Go figure!

The promise that you're selling: "if you just give up a smidge of your liberty to get the vaccine, then we can go back to normal!" is a lie.

Disco Gary the Biggest Loser wrote:

I broke your sweaty fist-clenching into two parts:

Bullet_Proof wrote:

1.) I never said I consent to the vaccine mandate. That is THE policy that I am vehemently arguing against.

2.) Yes I am vaccinated to other diseases. You know why? Because those diseases can actually F you up. So it makes sense to get them. I am not opposed to vaccines in general. I am not opposed to even people experimenting on their bodies with this one. I am simply opposed to forced vaccination...

...especially when there are alternative solutions, including but not limited to: testing people before they come into the workplace everyday, taking temperature, having people fill out a visit request form before they enter the building. That would actually be a safer method to ensure that no one brings covid the workplace because science has shown that even vaccinated people are transmitting covid-19.

More solutions: wearing n-95 masks, sanitizing all surfaces. Social distancing, allowing remote work when applicable.

More solutions: staying home when anyone feels the slightest bit sick. Yes, this solution relies on trust and personal responsibility, but it is an additional solution nonetheless that can help contribute to your safety goal.

That 700k death number is not a stone cold fact. Are you really going to claim that 700,000 people died of ONLY covid - they were perfectly healthy and young - and they only thing that happened was they contracted the sniffles?

If we're past 18mo of asking/expecting American's to step up and mask/distance/stay home/sanitize, and a large block of the country refuses to, why are you still trotting this out as a reasonable solution? You're presenting a dishonest solution and false equivalence to pretend that that your desired "solutions" are equal to a safe, cheap and nearly-passive solution: a vaccine. And it's chuckle-worthy that you elude to "us" lieing about the world going back to normal, when you're proposing continuing an indefinite solution non-normal-life protocols (vs just getting a jab).

And again, at past 18mo in, please stop with "teh comorbidities kiLLeD them" schtick. Yes, there are hundreds of thousands of deaths in the US from covid; waste your time equivacating about who qualifies as a covid death or not... Without covid, those people would be alive another week/month/year; you're not a doctor or a coroner [and, Unkle:, there's not a massive scam to mislabel deaths] so you don't get to make the judgement on how degreed medical professionals do their job - WORLD WIDE.

Bullet_Proof wrote:

Also, why do you care if unvaccinated people die? You seem to revel when prominent radio hosts die of covid. You're sending mixed signals.

Vaxed people do not need to worry! You've "moved on"! You are cultured, intellectual, and a member of the developed world, as you put it.

But something tells me that even if the US reaches 98% vaccination rate, we will not return to normal. A friend's company is 100% vaccinated and they still are required to wear masks. Go figure!

The promise that you're selling: "if you just give up a smidge of your liberty to get the vaccine, then we can go back to normal!" is a lie.

I've never reveled in anyone dying - you can attempt to infer things here, based on my condescending view or from harambe's cutting right hooks, but I think we're both on the same page of mourning the dead, wanting america to succeed and hoping for the best outcome. I worry about everyone dealing with this, both vaxxed and unvaxxed, and I especially worry about my young kids.

You're negative and doubtful outlook isn't helping anyone. Sowing doubt and division, for the sake of your own pride and personal outlook is detrimental to your community and your neighbors. I believe normal is attainable and should be our unrelenting goal. It takes hard work and a sliver of sacrifice. You're not willing to give up a sliver - but you're willing to let other people gamble theirs. Very telling of our modern times and how you've been roped along by dissentful narratives and boogeyman ideology of weaponized vaccines and scifi, dystopian outcomes to your short, non-permanent time on earth. Keep enjoying that "f-ing" half empty glass and I'll work on keeping mine half full.

Too much eyeTalian on that one?

Conservative Right-Winger wrote:

Nope: Pandemic of the obese/unhealthy: Confirmed.

I'm 60 and had a bout of Delta of last month with only mild symptoms needing no medical intervention whatsoever! I do non-competitive bodybuilding mixed in with running & cycling and I'm phenomenal shape. 💪 My 21 yr old son also had Delta & experienced very mild symptoms (he's a student-athlete & we had overlapping cases of the virus). I have a 49 yr old lady friend, a hard core marathoner, who had a bout of Delta back in August. Though she had to cancel a marathon, she experienced mild symptoms and needed no medical intervention either. She's a 5-7, 125 lb lean machine & in phenominal shape.

But here's the best of all CS: 72 yr old rocker Ted Nugent had a bad bout of Delta but recovered without needing hospitalization!

Nugent is in great shape & has no preexisting conditions. Here's a recent performance - I remind you this is a 72 yr old! (probably 3 times your age?). According to fearmongering MSM & the pro-vaxx mafia, he should have been dead from Covid & not out performing concerts! Lol.