A 9 week marathon build from no running at all just seems like too little regardless of which method you're using, no? 2:55 after 'hitting the wall' in this scenario (i.e. going out too fast for your level of fitness, could be that 2:50 would have been on the cards if you had paced it more evenly) seems like a strong performance to me, as well as more or less in line with your 10km/HM times. I'm sure you have more to give, just need a proper cycle with no 'hiccups', whether it's Pfitz/Daniels or the modified method you've used.
I may not have been super clear, I am pleased with my result given my build. My main question was whether large blocks of marathon pace work are essential when adopting this method for a marathon build. Will this help avoid hitting a wall, or was this mainly due to pacing and not enough mileage. I would guess mostly the latter, but I wanted opinions from others on this thread. It seems like the consensus is to do what I did, albeit for 12-16 weeks rather than the more traditional marathon type workouts.
Well, if you check the training paces of the vast majority of great marathoners they almost never use MP pace in training. They go faster or slower......🧙🏼♂️👋
But velocity at LT will change as fitness changes.
Yes, but that wasn’t the question.
In that case there is no need to keep testing your LTHR as I’m understanding it.
If LTHR is the guide, then HR workout data itself would tell you when it’s time to increase your pace/velocity. For example, if 6:30 pace is no longer getting me to my LTHR of 165 by the last rep of the workout, then it’s time to start running those reps faster.
I take it that when fall/winter comes back around, your paces would have to make a pretty big jump.
20 x 400 meters. Working from 61 all the way down to 50.1. That’s 50.1 for his 20th 400m, and he went through the first 200m in 23 high. This mind-blowing workout comes from the log of Ala…
Well, better to never press things, just stay at the present individual level of shape in training. It's the old common knowings to stay with smart and effective balanced quality and easy days.If a runner race a 4:10 mile that runner should train after at paces equal to a 4:10 miler but not as a 4 min miler.🧙🏼♂️
It seems like Magness is speaking here in the context of pace but what about heart rate? Going off HR seems like a conservative approach to me because HR is a measure of your internal load.
Follow-up question: How closely does HR track lactate? Is there significant decoupling between HR and lactate?
Based on this post, sirpoc was doing km and mile repeats at 6:00 min/mile when he was in 17:27 fitness.
I am in similar fitness for 5k but have been doing 3 min, 4 min and mile repeats around 6:10-6:15 min/mile, loosely based on tinman/daniels.
Am I going too slow?
Easy answer. You go too slow. You should run your threshold reps more close to around 6 min mile pace if you are in 17:27 5 k shape.What's also is a bit funny with Sirpoc running mile and km threshold reps @ 6:00 min/ mile when in 17:27 shape is that pace is equal to Daniels suggested threshold pace and not a sub threshold pace as this thread is about..... 😉😁🧙🏼♂️🇸🇪
That's what has been confusing me all along. People keep talking about SUB threshold and electing to go slower than necessary, but sirpocs pace suggestions early on in the thread are actually quite hard (6:00 pace with 1 min rest for km and mile reps is hard when you are in 17:30 shape). I can do 5:50 for 10k and 6:00 reps are still pretty hard.
Easy answer. You go too slow. You should run your threshold reps more close to around 6 min mile pace if you are in 17:27 5 k shape.What's also is a bit funny with Sirpoc running mile and km threshold reps @ 6:00 min/ mile when in 17:27 shape is that pace is equal to Daniels suggested threshold pace and not a sub threshold pace as this thread is about..... 😉😁🧙🏼♂️🇸🇪
That's what has been confusing me all along. People keep talking about SUB threshold and electing to go slower than necessary, but sirpocs pace suggestions early on in the thread are actually quite hard (6:00 pace with 1 min rest for km and mile reps is hard when you are in 17:30 shape). I can do 5:50 for 10k and 6:00 reps are still pretty hard.
That's why this thread is a big joke, lol.Sirpoc doesn't run SUB threshold.
Easy answer. You go too slow. You should run your threshold reps more close to around 6 min mile pace if you are in 17:27 5 k shape.What's also is a bit funny with Sirpoc running mile and km threshold reps @ 6:00 min/ mile when in 17:27 shape is that pace is equal to Daniels suggested threshold pace and not a sub threshold pace as this thread is about..... 😉😁🧙🏼♂️🇸🇪
That's what has been confusing me all along. People keep talking about SUB threshold and electing to go slower than necessary, but sirpocs pace suggestions early on in the thread are actually quite hard (6:00 pace with 1 min rest for km and mile reps is hard when you are in 17:30 shape). I can do 5:50 for 10k and 6:00 reps are still pretty hard.
I will give you an advice that functions great. Try to run your 1 km and mile threshold reps at about 6:03-6:05 mile pace( for a runner at 17:30 5k) and instead of using 60 sec fixed rest you try my special rest walking easy back to 120 bpm pulse ( or 60% of your max heartrate).. This way you get EXACTLY the best rest your body needs after every rep . Try it out and come back here to tell how it felt for you. Good luck! 🇸🇪🧙🏼♂️🇸🇪
instead of using 60 sec fixed rest you try my special rest walking easy back to 120 bpm pulse
Your special rest? You mean the one Woldemar Gerschler came up with almost 100 years ago? This is why no one should listen to you. You are a scammer and a liar.
instead of using 60 sec fixed rest you try my special rest walking easy back to 120 bpm pulse
Your special rest? You mean the one Woldemar Gerschler came up with almost 100 years ago? This is why no one should listen to you. You are a scammer and a liar.
Is it a good idea though regardless who says it? Seems logical to me.
It is precisely the same thing that the Spanish coach Luis del Águila says. He proposes to continue training the same paces for a while as long as you improve, especially because the adaptation at the muscular and tendon level related to strength is slower than the cardiopulmonary and mitochondrial adaptation. He comments that many athletes ask him the reason for not updating the paces if they improve their personal bests in competition, however, despite not doing so, they continue to improve. Obviously, after a few weeks or months, it does update.
instead of using 60 sec fixed rest you try my special rest walking easy back to 120 bpm pulse
Your special rest? You mean the one Woldemar Gerschler came up with almost 100 years ago?
I mean the special rest I use sometimes to my runners to individually perfect adapt to the stress level when running intervals.It' s a very effective scientific proven way of handle the interval of rest between faster reps.Every runner haven't test it out should do so. It functions like magic! 😁🇸🇪🧙🏼♂️🇸🇪
That's what has been confusing me all along. People keep talking about SUB threshold and electing to go slower than necessary, but sirpocs pace suggestions early on in the thread are actually quite hard (6:00 pace with 1 min rest for km and mile reps is hard when you are in 17:30 shape). I can do 5:50 for 10k and 6:00 reps are still pretty hard.
This is where you have let yourself be totally confused by the nonsense JS has posted. There is no thhreshold pace here. That's the point. It's a threshold state. It's all about what paces for sirpoc have created the desired lactate. That can be 12-15k pace for 1k reps or 20-30k pace for 3.2k reps. The pace is varied, the sun threshold state is the same.
It's pretty key to read the whole thread to understand all this in terms of an overall concept. If you look at recent races, sirpoc LTHR I would guess is around 178-180. You can see he's almost never working at this level. Maybe I've seen him post on Strava he busted a workout , even then he's maybe touched LTHR maybe for a couple of mins, on the last rep. Even then of course, HR is only telling a small part of the picture.
If you don't understand this concept (like coach JS, clearly) then probably it's not worth doing this method of training, as you'll likely mess it up. One thing for sure, this is probably actually more complicated for some people to understand than you'd think. In general, I think it fair to say a large but significantly minority are simply not understanding about what sub threshold actually is or what is trying to be achieved here.
That's what has been confusing me all along. People keep talking about SUB threshold and electing to go slower than necessary, but sirpocs pace suggestions early on in the thread are actually quite hard (6:00 pace with 1 min rest for km and mile reps is hard when you are in 17:30 shape). I can do 5:50 for 10k and 6:00 reps are still pretty hard.
You're not confused, you're just lazy and entitled. Too lazy to read the thread. Enjoy your confusion, windowlicker.
