Never face justice for war crimes? Well then...if the war crimes actually occurred & they're are not made up by the MSM - then why would Putin never face a tribunal?
And you say Russia would never be forced to make reparations? FFS, his military has practically annihilated half the country into oblivion. So, who picks up the tab? Oh...I know...the U.S. taxpayers will keep forking over billions of dollars in aid to Ukraine. Lol
And if Putin doesn't withdrawal - then the U.S., NATO, the UN, etc, are all okay with the death & destruction continuing indefinitely?
1) Most reasonable people would accept a humiliating retreat as enough from Russia. We understand that Putin cannot be externally brought to justice for many reasons. So, yes -- there's no need to demand his head. Simply Russian humiliation is enough.
2) Your argument seems to be "this is heading for nuclear war because the West will never accept a Putin retreat as enough!" Everyone else is like "no, we understand a full withdrawal would be the best we can get, and we'll take it." So no, there wouldn't escalation if Putin gave up.
3) The death and destruction would never continue indefinitely. Russia has a fix supply of materiel and manpower that is being destroyed at a surprisingly high rate. They cannot sustain these losses forever. Modern NATO weapons will only accelerate this.
The idea of Russia completely retreating seems highly unlikely. Maybe the Ukrainian military will dominate on the eastern battlefields and ultimately push Russian forces back into Russia, but a more likely outcome seems to me that the front of the war sinks back into some kind of military stalemate. But who knows? I actually agree that if Ukraine, for instance, really gains the upper hand and starts to push Russia out of, lets say, Crimea, that that degree of perceived humiliation could prompt Putin to take desperate measures.
What is certain, though, is that Putin has burned bridges to Europe. They will never see him as a rational, predictable leader. Hence, Putin may never face a tribunal, but sanctions on Russia have already started hardening into long-term policy. And regarding reparations, Western governments including the US are already looking at ways to take the oligarchs' frozen assets as a means to funnel resources to Ukraine -- the bill passed in the House yesterday is a case in point.
2) Your argument seems to be "this is heading for nuclear war because the West will never accept a Putin retreat as enough!" Everyone else is like "no, we understand a full withdrawal would be the best we can get, and we'll take it." So no, there wouldn't escalation if Putin gave up.
Yes...I think there's a reasonable possibility this could ultimately end up in a nuclear conflict of some sort. When you brag about Ukraine beating the snot of the Russians & embarrassing them and so on, Ukraine is not accomplishing this without U.S. military aide. The U.S. is providing Ukraine with state-of-art high-tech weaponry as well as military intelligence from the U.S.'s high-tech satellite & drone surveillance operations. Putin knows this - he's not stupid.
So, what would stop Putin from striking a U.S./NATO military target with one of his hypersonic Tsirkon cruise missiles? The U.S.would retaliate swiftly with a nuke strike on one of Russia's military targets. Congress would follow with a Declaration of War on Russia and in a matter of hours, you have the opening "kickoff" of a full-scale military conflict in Eastern Europe.
It would have been nice if Ukraine was overrun and few civilians died, Putin felt accomplished and didn’t need to blow the world up.
But, his soldiers can’t fight, they are only effective against children, Putin is a big loser in the eyes of the world, and is backed up into a corner.
He is becoming suicidal which is definitely dangerous for all of us.
Putin is a coward. He keeps saying NATO nations with face “swift and fast” military action if they supply Ukraine with military hardware. NATO nations have been doing it for two months and even Germany are supplying tanks to Ukraine. What’s the timeline for “swift and fast” in Russian culture? Does the entire nation being in a vodka induced stupor slow things down?
Maybe being with pigs for sexual pleasure slows down Putin’s reaction time.
It would have been nice if Ukraine was overrun and few civilians died, Putin felt accomplished and didn’t need to blow the world up.
...
He is becoming suicidal which is definitely dangerous for all of us.
Several weeks ago on the boards (it might have been this thread) someone mentioned that Putin might have a terminal illness. Several people have noted that he is mentally and physically declining.
VLADIMIR Putin appears “bloated” and “weakened” in recent public appearances, and his behaviour indicates he may be suffering from a severe physical illness, body language e…
Defcon is spinning fantasy scenarios. The West's endgame doesn't require trying Putin for war crimes or invading Russia to apprehend him. They would be satisfied with a withdrawal of Russia from Ukraine and keeping some of the sanctions (including the personal sanctions on Putin and his inner circle) in place. The threat of war crimes would keep Putin confined to Russia or other friendly countries (so much for enjoying those yachts).
Wouldn't Ukraine demand a international war crime tribunal? And what about war reparations? I suppose Ukraine would just forgive & forgot. Lol.
Honestly, since the MSM has painted Putin as a modern day Hitler, just being satisfied with his withdrawal from Ukraine is comical. Do you realize he'd get the last laugh? The allegations of war crimes shouldn't be used loosely. Remember - there was the Nuremberg trials post-WW2 that sought to indict & punish every Nazi war criminal, especially those Nazi's involved in the Warmacht high-command.
Ukraine demanding a war crimes trial doesn't mean the trial would happen. And even if a tribunal was convened, Putin would not show up and NATO wouldn't risk the costs of entering Russia to apprehend him. If tried and convicted in Putin would live out his days in Russia, only able to visit vassal states or some other friendly country.
Biden asked Congress for the funding Thursday, but the aid may face significant roadblocks in Congress if tied to a Covid-19 funding bill that’s unpopular among Republicans.
Well, it sounds like the USA is all in now with Ukraine. Biden went from $800 million every other week for aid to $33 billion, $20 billion in military assistance. He also announced that the US as sent 10 javelin missiles for every 1 tank that Russia in its inventory. Putin, if he hears this news probably won't be too pleased. Will he now stop attacking pawns and knights and start go for bishops and rooks? Or will he try for a quick check mate? I'd love to be a fly on the wall in his office.
1) Most reasonable people would accept a humiliating retreat as enough from Russia. We understand that Putin cannot be externally brought to justice for many reasons. So, yes -- there's no need to demand his head. Simply Russian humiliation is enough.
2) Your argument seems to be "this is heading for nuclear war because the West will never accept a Putin retreat as enough!" Everyone else is like "no, we understand a full withdrawal would be the best we can get, and we'll take it." So no, there wouldn't escalation if Putin gave up.
3) The death and destruction would never continue indefinitely. Russia has a fix supply of materiel and manpower that is being destroyed at a surprisingly high rate. They cannot sustain these losses forever. Modern NATO weapons will only accelerate this.
The idea of Russia completely retreating seems highly unlikely. Maybe the Ukrainian military will dominate on the eastern battlefields and ultimately push Russian forces back into Russia, but a more likely outcome seems to me that the front of the war sinks back into some kind of military stalemate. But who knows? I actually agree that if Ukraine, for instance, really gains the upper hand and starts to push Russia out of, lets say, Crimea, that that degree of perceived humiliation could prompt Putin to take desperate measures.
What is certain, though, is that Putin has burned bridges to Europe. They will never see him as a rational, predictable leader. Hence, Putin may never face a tribunal, but sanctions on Russia have already started hardening into long-term policy. And regarding reparations, Western governments including the US are already looking at ways to take the oligarchs' frozen assets as a means to funnel resources to Ukraine -- the bill passed in the House yesterday is a case in point.
Harambe is one of the most dangerously stupid people in society, And, unfortunately, there is a lot of people like this.
(did you know that military officers packed their finest parade military outfits because they expected there would be a huge Kiev parade within days of the start of the operation? They were found among the debris when they were killed)
Well, it sounds like the USA is all in now with Ukraine. Biden went from $800 million every other week for aid to $33 billion, $20 billion in military assistance. He also announced that the US as sent 10 javelin missiles for every 1 tank that Russia in its inventory. Putin, if he hears this news probably won't be too pleased. Will he now stop attacking pawns and knights and start go for bishops and rooks? Or will he try for a quick check mate? I'd love to be a fly on the wall in his office.
Yep. Biden, the DNC and the Neo-Cons have A LOT of money laundering to do, as their machine has been massively monkey wrenched.
$33 Billion of US tax payer money. If you don't get it by now, you'll never understand.
So, what would stop Putin from striking a U.S./NATO military target with one of his hypersonic Tsirkon cruise missiles? The U.S.would retaliate swiftly with a nuke strike on one of Russia's military targets.
The idea of Russia completely retreating seems highly unlikely. Maybe the Ukrainian military will dominate on the eastern battlefields and ultimately push Russian forces back into Russia, but a more likely outcome seems to me that the front of the war sinks back into some kind of military stalemate. But who knows? I actually agree that if Ukraine, for instance, really gains the upper hand and starts to push Russia out of, lets say, Crimea, that that degree of perceived humiliation could prompt Putin to take desperate measures.
What is certain, though, is that Putin has burned bridges to Europe. They will never see him as a rational, predictable leader. Hence, Putin may never face a tribunal, but sanctions on Russia have already started hardening into long-term policy. And regarding reparations, Western governments including the US are already looking at ways to take the oligarchs' frozen assets as a means to funnel resources to Ukraine -- the bill passed in the House yesterday is a case in point.
Harambe is one of the most dangerously stupid people in society, And, unfortunately, there is a lot of people like this.
Russia is getting spanked. They have had to refocus on very narrow subset of their original goals. There is no evidence they will attain these either especially as better NATO arms flow in.
I've been told countless times since February that Russia is making some new push and will stop getting humiliated. I'll believe it when I see it!
And we've been told countless times, that Russia was 'out of gas for the convoy', 'gonna blow up the nuclear plants', etc. It has all been lie after lie. And you're the parrot.
Think about it... wrote: And we've been told countless times, that Russia was 'out of gas for the convoy', 'gonna blow up the nuclear plants', etc. It has all been lie after lie. And you're the parrot.
Yes, comrade. Russia doing great! You the English better than mine. You tell those damned yankees!
In an unprecedented information-sharing operation, US spy agencies divulged the co-ordinates of Russian forces and aircraft to Ukrainian troops, allowing them to pre-empt attacks.
And we've been told countless times, that Russia was 'out of gas for the convoy', 'gonna blow up the nuclear plants', etc. It has all been lie after lie. And you're the parrot.
You're correct that the standards for 'success' are markedly unfair!?
Ukraine: don't fall to murderous aggressors.
Russia: Achieve war goals they've clearly stated
Perhaps we should be judging Ukraine by their ability to counter strike Russian targets and reclaim long-occupied land?
That seems more fair given the balance of power in this war right now (Russia losing, Ukraine winning).
I went up into my attic and found my old Hammond Historical Atlas from High School. It contains about 40 maps showing the area of Ukraine from around 600 BC until 1970. None of those 40 maps show Ukraine as an independent sovereign country. Over the course of 2500 years, large portions of Ukraine were part of other countries such as the Ottoman Empire, the Kingdom of the Kievan Rus, Poland, Romania, Lithuania and Russia.
There is NOT a reasonable historical, political, social or cultural basis to declare that Ukraine has the right to exist as an independent nation. The Ukraine that emerged in 1991 was the result of a decision by the Bolsheviks in 1922 to split off Ukraine as its own separate Soviet Republic.
There actually is a historical reason to declare Ukraine has a right to exist. 1991 when it declared independence. 90% of citizens voted for independence. The Soviet Union was dissolved shortly after.
Ukraine as as much right to exist as the US had a right to exist 31 years after the revolutionary war in 1814.
So “Dan” you went up in your attic and found your high school atlas that has 40 maps of Ukraine going back to 600 BC. Riiight! Ha ha!
We feel privileged that Russia view LRC as a site worthy of pro-Russian propaganda.
However, your Russian education is clouding your understanding of US culture. The US is a young country, created upon a democratic platform. We view Ukraine as a democratic nation. We don’t care about it’s history going back to 600BC. It’s an independent, democratic nation now. That’s all we see. That’s all that matters. That’s the cultural gap you need to understand.
That’s why the US has a hard-on for helping Ukraine. It’s a new democracy fighting for its future independence from a powerful Empire. Sound familiar?
The US is going to exploit this war to benefit US interests of weakening Russia and strengthening NATO.
You should make plans to get out of Russia. You’re a smart person, well educated, and your English is great. Since you have access to this website, you obviously have access to the world’s media outlets, and you’re smart enough to know what’s really happening. Let us know if we can help you.
