Wow. Was your post meant to be intelligible? Not sure how to respond or what to say other than I hope you never have children.
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Macroagression wrote:
rojo wrote:
[quote]Another gal with 20/20 vision wrote:
Wambui - 2:01.32/1:57.52
That's a STAGGERING amoutn of improvement.
No. It is not.
Yes it is. The former barely qualifies you for the Olympics (2:01.50 standard); the latter could win you a medal.
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Macroagression wrote:
rojo wrote:
[quote]Another gal with 20/20 vision wrote:
Wambui - 2:01.32/1:57.52
That's a STAGGERING amoutn of improvement.
No. It is not.
Why did you let out the two other improvements rojo's comment referred to?
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Shannon's new fan wrote:
oheo wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing how many women olympic athletes support your view.
Most women are way to scared to say anything non-PC. Old white dudes must always do the job for them.
Props to Rowbury though. I'll root for her despite her Nike affiliation and her lipstick.
Rowbury is tops in my books as well, she the only one thus far brave enough to stand up for whats is right. Love seeing her give back to the sport.
Don't appreciate those who have stolen so much from other athletes.
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The joke is on us wrote:
Shannon's new fan wrote:
Most women are way to scared to say anything non-PC. Old white dudes must always do the job for them.
Props to Rowbury though. I'll root for her despite her Nike affiliation and her lipstick.
Rowbury is tops in my books as well, she the only one thus far brave enough to stand up for whats is right. Love seeing her give back to the sport.
Don't appreciate those who have stolen so much from other athletes.
Rowbury and Ross Tucker are the heroes Letsrun needs!
http://sportsscientists.com/2016/07/caster-semenya-debate/00 -
tracklady wrote:
The joke is on us wrote:
Rowbury is tops in my books as well, she the only one thus far brave enough to stand up for whats is right. Love seeing her give back to the sport.
Don't appreciate those who have stolen so much from other athletes.
Rowbury and Ross Tucker are the heroes Letsrun needs!
http://sportsscientists.com/2016/07/caster-semenya-debate/Ross Tucker who wants to medicate intersex athletes so that they can run in the female category?
You've been duped.
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rojo wrote:
Today I received an email from a female journalist whom I had a long conversation with a few weeks ago about the Caster Semenya situation.
Her email was one sentence long and was as follows;
"We're publishing an essay calling you out for continuing a dated, bigoted conversation about gender in sports. Any comment?"
During our talk on the phone, when I told her I very much believed Semenya should not be allowed to compete in the women's category without hormonal treatment, she got very upset. She said she didn't think I understood the ramifications of my bigoted views. She said people would die because of them. I told her I didn't understand how my views on Semenya competing in the Olympics had anything to do with the deaths of transgender/intesex people in a third world country and she replied that my bigoted views would result in transgender people being murdered in Texas.
I was at a loss for words. Even though this made no sense to me, I offered her a chance to present her viewpoints in an article or podcast on our website (she doesn't like me quoting Ross Tucker as he agrees with me and wants other science viewpoints presented- a name that came up was Sari Van Andrews) but she declined as she wrote, "My sense is that you don't really want to understand the issue at stake. I'm afraid I can't be of further assistance."
So that's the backstory. Below, is the reply I sent her to today's email.
Rojo wrote:
Yes. I care to comment.
1) Who is "We"?
2) Can I see what is being written about me so I can respond more accurately. It's hard to respond generically but I'll do my best in #3.
3) If believing that humans (whether intersex or transgender) that respond to testosterone shouldn't be allowed to compete in Olympic women's track and field with elevated testosterone levels is considered bigoted, then I'm proud to be considered a bigot. Such bigoted views are necessary to protect the future viability of women's sports.
The fact that Caitlyn Jenner was recently on the cover of Sports Illustrated shows that society has come a long way in support of transgender rights. People no longer have to accept the gender of their birth. If gender is now self-defined, as I take it you would argue it is, then it's foolish to say there shouldn't be a testosterone cap of some sort for women's athletics. One can only speculate as to how many women's gold medals an untreated Caitlyn Jenner would have won in 1976.
There is no human right to compete in Olympic track and field. If you want to compete at that level, everyone agrees to give up some rights and agree to certain rules - you have to agree to make your whereabouts known 24/7, you have to agree to blood and urine testing, you have to agree that only three people per country can compete in a certain event, etc. Requiring someone like Caster Semenya, who is XY, to reduce her testosterone so she can compete in the protected women's category isn't an inhumane burden. She can politely decline to do so and compete on an amateur level like most athletes across the globe or she could try to compete professionally in the men's category (which maybe should be redefined as the "open" category). Her human right to be an athlete isn't being denied - just her access to the protected category of professional women's athlete.
-Rojo
PS. Based on our phone conversation, you seem to think everyone has a human right to be in the Olympics. I disagree. 8 of the 9 fastest men in the world right now in the men's steeplechase are Kenyan. Only 3 of them will be in Rio. Are their human rights being violated by a "dated and bigoted" policy? Similarly, the top 7 fastest women in the world in the women's 100 hurdles are all American - yet only three of them will be in Rio.
I don't know how I'm being bigoted on this. I simply have a view point on thist hat she disagrees with. In my mind, I'm tyring to save women's sports.
Knowing that LetsRun.com is an influential voice,. I offered her a chance to present her side of the story. She declined. Can someone explain to me what I'm missing?
The major difficulty I have is that there really is no scientific evidence that elevated "natural" testosterone levels are much of an advantage in women's athletics. When the testosterone-reducing practice was tossed out, it wasn't tossed out for good, they were just asked to produce the scientific evidence. If the iaaf or the ioc produced such evidence [comissioned a study] the rule could be reinstated. I might support such a rule then, but not now. "Look at the 800m" is not scientific evidence.
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matthewXCountry wrote:
The major difficulty I have is that there really is no scientific evidence that elevated "natural" testosterone levels are much of an advantage in women's athletics. When the testosterone-reducing practice was tossed out, it wasn't tossed out for good, they were just asked to produce the scientific evidence. If the iaaf or the ioc produced such evidence [comissioned a study] the rule could be reinstated. I might support such a rule then, but not now. "Look at the 800m" is not scientific evidence.
Do you believe that female muscle is different than male muscle? There is research that shows that testosterone increases muscle mass when given to men. It would be difficult to imagine it would not have the same effect in women.
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matthewXCountry wrote:
The major difficulty I have is that there really is no scientific evidence that elevated "natural" testosterone levels are much of an advantage in women's athletics. When the testosterone-reducing practice was tossed out, it wasn't tossed out for good, they were just asked to produce the scientific evidence. If the iaaf or the ioc produced such evidence [comissioned a study] the rule could be reinstated. I might support such a rule then, but not now. "Look at the 800m" is not scientific evidence.
It's a good thing if IAAF fails to procure "scientific evidence" that testosterone doesn't enhance performance. Requiring intersex athletes to take testosterone reducing is the worst solution. Not only is using meds to gain access to an easier category akin to doping. There will also be endless cheating with testosterone levels during training.
Rojo is dead wrong on this.
The female category must be restricted by absence of the SRY-gene. That's the only working solution. Since that's not politically possible now, we need a complete meltdown. Trannies must sweep the 800m podium in Rio. Then they must take over female elite sports in the years to come. Eventually true females must come out and fix their situation themselves. Old white dudes cannot do all the job.
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matthewXCountry wrote:
I might support such a rule then, but not now. "Look at the 800m" is not scientific evidence.
We know it's not "scientific evidence" because Rojo told us so:
"I don't need to a scientific paper to prove to me that testosterone greatly enhances performance or that a talented athlete thought to have internal testicles and elevated T like Caster Semenya is, without hormone treatment, going to dominate XX athletes, and the developments of the last year prove that I was correct."
And if you need "scientific evidence" to support such a rule then you don't know much about T&F.
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rojo wrote:
Her email was one sentence long and was as follows;
"We're publishing an essay calling you out for continuing a dated, bigoted conversation about gender in sports. Any comment?"
This shows in one paragraph what a clown and non-"journalist" this person is.
I won't even bother explaining why. As a "journalist" she should be embarrassed.
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rojo wrote:
Another gal with 20/20 vision wrote:
Wambui - 2:01.32/1:57.52
That's a STAGGERING amoutn of improvement.
Macroagression wrote:
No. It is not.
For only a slight reduction of testosterone, still over 3 times the range for real women, and as was only for a limited time, Yes, that is a staggering difference.
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Make up your mind wrote:
Make up your mind wrote:
1) Semenya was born a man, is a man, and will always be a man.
2) He is not a woman and I'm not going to call him a woman, regardless what he wants.
3) My choice is to be honest, and I'm going to continue to be honest.
4) He is not a she. Calling him a she is a lie. That lie is the only reason he's in women's events, which is a total travesty, a rape of women on the international stage.
You have no mind wrote:
1) Semenya was not born a man. She was born intersex.
2) You're a bigot, rejecting differing opinions.
3) You're ignorant. Edify yourself.
Saying Semenya was not born a man is a lie.
You're the one who's an ignorant bigot, an example of the intersex male mentality who have been posting on here, making up lies to suit your narrow minded purposes, intent on taking over women's athletics, and not caring in the least that you're destroying women's athletics for real women.
What we need to understand is that there is no possibility to compromise with the intersex male lobby, because their only focus is this taking over of women's athletics, and they won't honestly discuss any alternative. Their only response is that anyone who doesn't agree with them taking over women's athletics is a reflection of their own close mindedness, and they refuse to acknowledge the truth.
There is no viable alternative but to keep the intersexed males OUT of women's athletics. They are welcome to form their own competitions, but I feel they should be sanctioned for trying to officially call themselves women.
You have no mind wrote:
Make up your mind, you have serious comprehension reality testing problems. You should really seek treatment for your traumatic brain injury.
Since you're the brain injury, the best thing to do is to remove you.
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tracklady wrote:
The joke is on us wrote:
Rowbury is tops in my books as well, she the only one thus far brave enough to stand up for whats is right. Love seeing her give back to the sport.
Don't appreciate those who have stolen so much from other athletes.
Rowbury and Ross Tucker are the heroes Letsrun needs!
http://sportsscientists.com/2016/07/caster-semenya-debate/Tucker is a sociologist wrote:
Ross Tucker who wants to medicate intersex athletes so that they can run in the female category?
You've been duped.
Tucker is one of the villains who wants intersexed men in the women's events.
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an actual journalist wrote:
rojo wrote:
Her email was one sentence long and was as follows;
"We're publishing an essay calling you out for continuing a dated, bigoted conversation about gender in sports. Any comment?"
This shows in one paragraph what a clown and non-"journalist" this person is.
I won't even bother explaining why. As a "journalist" she should be embarrassed.
That clown and non-"journalist" is nothing but a troll, good reply from Rojo but dunno why he wasted his time on her, should have just ignored her and not given her oxygen.
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This problem has plagued the Olympics from the beginning.
Intersex athletes at the Olympics are most likely the norm than the exception.
In tests of physical prowess among females, it should not be surprising that intersex athletes would dominate.
The issue of intersex is incredibly complicated, and it is extremely unlikely that all the different types of intersex have been discovered.
Pure females with the aid of steroids would be able to level the playing field, but there is nothing stopping intersex athletes from using steroids as well.
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Why then did Semenya run 1:55 again this year after the CAS ruling, but struggle to break 2 most of the remaining time, except when it seems that just before championships the regulators were off and Semenya tried to medal without attracting much notice?
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Another gal with 20/20 vision wrote:
Macroagression wrote:
No. It is not.
Yes it is. The former barely qualifies you for the Olympics (2:01.50 standard); the latter could win you a medal.
1:57.52 would not even place 3rd at Monaco last week.
A 3.8 second difference in 800 meter times around 2 flat is not a "STAGGERING amoutn".
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Retard Alert wrote:
Make up your mind wrote:
Saying Semenya was not born a man is a lie.
You're the one who's an ignorant bigot, an example of the intersex male mentality who have been posting on here, making up lies to suit your narrow minded purposes, intent on taking over women's athletics, and not caring in the least that you're destroying women's athletics for real women.
What we need to understand is that there is no possibility to compromise with the intersex male lobby, because their only focus is this taking over of women's athletics, and they won't honestly discuss any alternative. Their only response is that anyone who doesn't agree with them taking over women's athletics is a reflection of their own close mindedness, and they refuse to acknowledge the truth.
There is no viable alternative but to keep the intersexed males OUT of women's athletics. They are welcome to form their own competitions, but I feel they should be sanctioned for trying to officially call themselves women.
You have no mind wrote:
Make up your mind, you have serious comprehension reality testing problems. You should really seek treatment for your traumatic brain injury.
Since you're the brain injury, the best thing to do is to remove you.
Yes, good point. Keep up the good work.
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1000 wrote:
Pure females with the aid of steroids would be able to level the playing field,
You're right, looking at the women's WR's from 800m down confirms that.
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