Atantic Region XC - D3

The Fredonia course was very soft today, ran pretty slow. RIT went 1-5, times were pretty slow. I won in 26:53, probably a 30-40 second gap from 1 to 5. Don't remember exactly.

My Atlantic Region top 10

1.Geneseo

2.NYU

3.TCNJ

4.Cortland

5.St. Lawrence

6.RIT

7.Brockport

8.UofR

9.Plattsburgh

10.Oswego

Oswego beat Ithaca last week and then Ithaca beat Oneonta. Fredonia hasnt been impressive at all so far and i dont see why they keep getting votes to be #10.

I'd say spots 9-16 are gonna be very very intriguing between Plattsburgh, Oswego, Rowan, Fredonia, Oneonta, Ithaca, RPI, and Hamilton

The top of your ranking seems pretty fair, given that many top teams won't meet before Regionals. Geneseo has certainly shown the most so far--at some point you have to rank based on what teams have *done*, and not on speculation about whom they've got training back on campus.

XCRunner65,

I'd say your top 10 looks pretty solid except i would replace Plattsburgh with RPI since they beat them by nearly 20 points this weekend up in Middlebury.

1.Geneseo

2.NYU

3.TCNJ

4.Cortland

5.St. Lawrence

6.RIT

7.Brockport

8.UofR

9.RPI

10.Oswego

And i agree,

Plattsburgh, Oneonta, Ithaca, Rowan, Fredonia are all right there with RPI and Oswego for those last 2 spots in the region.

The top 8 teams make up the first tier of the Atlantic Region teams and then there is a significant dropoff to the teams mentioned above that are in Tier 2.

Keep in mind Ithaca has not run their full team yet. Why, I'm not sure, but if you compare their top seven from their alumni race to Oswego and Oneonta, you'll find they're holding out their top guys. They're a top ten team in the region if they ever stop resting people.

Here's a link to alumni...looks like Shea, Caster, and Tibero haven't run yet...and a few other guys didn't run at Oneonta.

http://bombers.ithaca.edu/Sports/mccountry/2006/mxcalumnirunresults%20090606.asp

do you seriously think ithaca is that good? they got beat by their alumni team. scratch ithaca from the top 10.

look at what Plattsburgh did last year and then compare it to what they did at regionals, and look where RPI was last year in October and what they did at Regionals...big difference.

I'll hand it to RPI though, from what I hear they had an army in front of Plattsburgh 3rd and 4th on one of the hardest courses in the NE. Who's Brinkman and Mathsen for Plattsburgh??? and where is Cloke?

Week 3 Polls are now posted.

I'd be lying if I said that it bothers me a lot, but it bothers me a little that the poll seems to take into account guys/teams who *didn't* run in a given week(s).

Can you imagine a football poll that ranked a team based on, among other things, guys who weren't playing in a given week? Or on a team's having given a "3/4 effort" in a game?

Just a personal preference--and clearly the coaches who vote the poll disagree, and the poll is mostly for their benefit anyway--but I'd like to see a poll based on competition results, period: if you choose not to run your top guys, or you have them run a race as a cruise workout and not as a true race (= all-out effort), then you can expect to take a hit in the polls the following week.

here it is wrote:

do you seriously think ithaca is that good? they got beat by their alumni team. scratch ithaca from the top 10.

Ithaca IS good, but they are young. Their top runner last year (Pat McGreal) would have been a senior this year but decided to become an Ultimate Fighter and hung up his spikes after last season. Jeff Abbott and Morty Castor are both seniors. Other than that, the key players are all sophomores and freshman.

Even still, Ithaca has the potential to finish in the top 10 in the region. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they make it to Nationals in another year or two.

I agree with you present,

I dont see why teams like Plattsburgh and Fredonia continue to get "potential" votes. The results havent been there yet at all for either of these two teams yet they still continue to score withe voters. Eventually, you've gotta abandon the pre-season "potential" rankings and start ranking temas by what they have done on the course. Almost every team has competed atleast twice now and some even more.

is the poll supposed to be the ranking as of right now, or where they think they will finish in the region in November. I can understand Plattsburgh and Fredonia getting votes for November because they peak right, and I can understand RPI, Brockport and RIT not getting votes because of their performance at regionals last year.

Well I see your point, but people can vote however they wish, and base it on current results, potential, or whatever they wish.

as for your points, D1 football gets a preseason ranking based on last year, returning starters, and potential. Teams rarely move unles they lose, no matter how well they win. Many teams do give a 3/4 effort, its called putting in the second team in early season non-conference blowouts, so they dont run up the score. Also NYU and CNJ dont race upstate teams week in/out, so its hard to base anything on head to head.

It is nice to see a number of programs in our region treat their teams more like most d1 teams do, train hard, dont over race and race every weekend. If Stanford, Colorado, Arkansas et all, ran their top guys every week, people would be screaming about killing them, and how they would be dead come november.

NYU is training for later in the year, we have a plan and hope it will work. As most coaches will tell you, there are a million things you cant control that can affect your team, you go day by day.

Our region looks really strong, and hopefully we can get 4-5 teams to ncaa's. We have some guys still coming back from spring and summer issues, but everyone is healthy and training well today. Its a long way to November, the polls will take care of themselves. Good Luck to everyone.

NYU heads to williams this week meaning we should get a look at their whole squad and what they are capable of.

How many votes does one coach get? Did the Cortland coach get to place two first place votes for the team?

1 per team...no

npm1 wrote:

people can vote however they wish, and base it on current results, potential, or whatever they wish.

D1 football gets a preseason ranking based on last year, returning starters, and potential. Teams rarely move unles they lose, no matter how well they win. Many teams do give a 3/4 effort, its called putting in the second team in early season non-conference blowouts, so they dont run up the score. Also NYU and CNJ dont race upstate teams week in/out, so its hard to base anything on head to head.

Our region looks really strong, and hopefully we can get 4-5 teams to ncaa's. Its a long way to November, the polls will take care of themselves.

npm1, I think we mostly agree. The coaches can vote for whomever they wish, and for whatever reason--which is why I said "clearly the coaches who vote the poll disagree, and the poll is mostly for their benefit anyway."

You're also right that football polls mostly move on the basis of losing--preseason picks tend to stay at the top until they lose. I have no problem with Geneseo and NYU remaining at the top of the poll--as near as I know, they haven't lost yet (have they?). But Cortland *has* lost, decisively, to two other regional teams. Regardless of the reason *why* they lost, they lost--and in my opinion don't deserve votes for #1. (But, yeah, it's not my poll...I'm just sayin'.)

By the way, those football teams only put in the subs if they're *winning*. If a cross-country team (like NYU) wins while making a less than complete effort, I say more power to them!

I also agree that the polls will take care of themselves--the only "polls" that count are the scores in November, anyway--and that the region looks very strong this year. I think four teams is a definite, and five is a real possibility.

Finally, a question--and you guys know this a lot better than I do--is TCNJ really the only Jersey school with a strong team this year? It seems like almost all the discussion is about Upstate NY schools...

npm1 wrote:

people can vote however they wish, and base it on current results, potential, or whatever they wish.

D1 football gets a preseason ranking based on last year, returning starters, and potential. Teams rarely move unles they lose, no matter how well they win. Many teams do give a 3/4 effort, its called putting in the second team in early season non-conference blowouts, so they dont run up the score. Also NYU and CNJ dont race upstate teams week in/out, so its hard to base anything on head to head.

Our region looks really strong, and hopefully we can get 4-5 teams to ncaa's. Its a long way to November, the polls will take care of themselves.

npm1, I think we mostly agree. The coaches can vote for whomever they wish, and for whatever reason--which is why I said "clearly the coaches who vote the poll disagree, and the poll is mostly for their benefit anyway."

You're also right that football polls mostly move on the basis of losing--preseason picks tend to stay at the top until they lose. I have no problem with Geneseo and NYU remaining at the top of the poll--as near as I know, they haven't lost yet (have they?). But Cortland *has* lost, decisively, to two other regional teams. Regardless of the reason *why* they lost, they lost--and in my opinion don't deserve votes for #1. (But, yeah, it's not my poll...I'm just sayin'.)

By the way, those football teams only put in the subs if they're *winning*. If a cross-country team (like NYU) wins while making a less than complete effort, I say more power to them!

I also agree that the polls will take care of themselves--the only "polls" that count are the scores in November, anyway--and that the region looks very strong this year. I think four teams is a definite, and five is a real possibility.

Finally, a question--and you guys know this a lot better than I do--is TCNJ really the only Jersey school with a strong team this year? It seems like almost all the discussion is about Upstate NY schools...

Sorry about double post.