threads go on forever wrote:
Why do threads go on forever?
Answer:
casual obsever = rekrunner
Wow. You catch on fast. Good for you!
threads go on forever wrote:
Why do threads go on forever?
Answer:
casual obsever = rekrunner
Wow. You catch on fast. Good for you!
Moen was a 3rd tier XC skier before becoming a runner. Will his success spur on other XC skiers to transition to running? Could we see 100s of top class aerobic monsters now come from Norway, Sweden, and Finland dropping 2:04s or less? Is XC skiing more lucrative for winners of major events?
Cross country ski specialists have great VO2, etc, but this will not translate into world class running times, because most of those guys are around 6ft-6ft3inches, with weight to match, that is around 170 lbs or more, so really not economical to carry that kind of weight around. In cm and kg - that would be around 183-186, and around 75kg-80kg and even more. Not efficient.
Moen is the exception that proves the rule.
Ghost in the Philippines
Sure, Petter Northug at 6'1" and 183 lbs at race shape has a huge disadvantage vs Moen who is 5'10' and 136 at race shape.
He is never running a 2:05 just as Moen is never benching 400. Just not the right body types. Solinsky and Vernon are/were the biggest long distance runners that I know of and they did not go past 10k.
Renato,
A few questions regarding Moens training. I know you've previously explained how he works out, but I'd like to ask you a specific question.
Moens former coach is known for his fondness of threshold running and threshold intervals. As far as I know Moen has religiously been running several threshold workouts/runs a week.
Have you changed anything about this? I know you've commented in the past that to improve threshold pace you have to go beyond it (in terms of lactate).
What levels of lactate does Moen usually have during workouts? What are his lactate levels during the hardest workouts, is it an all out intensity?
Thank you.
The Ingebrigtsens all started with XC Skiing. The most talented doesn't even do any sport anymore.
DHT123 wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:
1 - The test of 8th August in the lab of Dresden regards a blood sample carried out by the IAAF as soon as Sondre arrived London from Sankt Moritz, where he trained till the previous day. Probably for the great number of tests IAAF decided to use non the lab of London only, but some other Lab, not too far, and Dresden was one of them.
2 - Sondre had several tests in Kenya, but for urine only. In the period 2016 - 2017 he had 9 tests OOC.
3 - These are ALL the tests used for creating the Biological Passport. There are many other tests, mainly from the Norwegian Antidoping Agency (ADNO), for urine only (like the most part of OOC tests in every Country).
detected in the blood tests of WADA. I have many tests, sometimes researching values of hormones not investigated by the antidoping agencies, because my goal is to have a more precise picture about the connection between values and performances.
The work for connecting all these data is very hard (especially for somebody like me who coaches on the ground for 8-10
4 - For studying the effects of different training, and of altitude, during the last 6 years, I can also use some other private blood tests, where, for example, we went to investigate other values (such as Iron, Ferritin, Transferrin) which are not hours every day), and something is not clear. But, believe me, at the end we can have some connection that can change the "classic" ideas about training in altitude and doping.
5 - The data of Sondre started to grow a little from when he increased the volume of training, and when started to go (sometimes only) in altitude. And not forget he didn't train for more than one year, after the big surgery he had with prof. Orava, who showed in this case to be a real number one in his field.
Thanks again for the detailed reply. It just reiterates how little transparency there is out there when I think this is probably the first complete set of blood data that I have seen, despite following the topic quite closely over the past couple of years. You should be applauded for providing this information.
It does however, reaffirm the fact that the testing in Kenya is basically a black hole when it comes to blood testing and the ABP. True, there is some level of testing (urine), although the integrity of that testing has been questionable (pre-announced tests). But essentially the majority of the world's best athletes have no blood testing whenever they train there (which is most of the time), and that is not a great situation given that the ABP is the main weapon to identify suspicious patterns indicating doping.
Any update on when this blood data will be officially published Renato, as you were suggesting?
So it seems like after the 2017 miracle year, Sondre's 2018 is not looking very bright due to "illness". He claimed on Twitter it was the "flu" for the Napoli HM DNS and now he mentions "two setbacks due to illness" for the World's HM DNS. It seems "things" are catching up with him...
Sondre has been sick. One of the problems with living in Iten during January/February is that flu and colds are widespread. Sondre will be back...
dwiyna wrote:
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
Didn't you say that as an athlete got fitter their Hb levels fell?
I think he said that hematocrit levels fall as athletes get fitter or when hemoglobin rises
That makes absolutely no sense, they are linked by a multiple of three.
Fatlad wrote:
Sondre has been sick. One of the problems with living in Iten during January/February is that flu and colds are widespread. Sondre will be back...
There has also been an influenza epidemic in Europe this winter which has been quite virulent.
I know. Hopefully, like me, you managed to avoided all sickness this winter.
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:
Again some doubt for something for me normal, when an athlete of good talent has continuity, motivation, tough and correct training, living (as Kenyan) in altitude for the most part of the year (223 days from the first of January).
The big performance of Moen, but especially the WAY he did, can clearly show two things :
1) White runners, with high talent (but not exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be like the best African, and sometimes also better.
2) Clean runners, with high talent (but non exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be at the top of the World, not depending their performance on the fact if are African or not.
Of course now there is some sceptic idiot who looks at doping as main reason of his improvement. Who know Moen (and my clear position) well know that he never used any supplement, also legal, because this is against our principles, and I think it's the best way for making the mind weak.
The big improvement of this year was very gradual, and now seems like an explosion only because there were more than 4 minutes between his previous marathon in Hannover and today, but we have to see at the time passed between them :
237 days, during which it's possible to build new situation, including a great increase of self confidence and personality.
In training, I already saw the potentiality for running 2:06, but what surprised also myself today is the interpretation of the race, and the personality he showed, attacking after 30 km, with 29'16" between 30 and 40 km and the last 2.195m still faster (for an average of 2'55" per km in the last 12.195m).
I will write, how already I did after his HM of Valencia in 59:48, his full plan between Valencia and Fukuoka (ALWAYS IN ALTITUDE).
I hope that this results, instead being considered connected with some doping, can bring people to think that the limits we put in our mind about the clean performances are not real, and depend not from the doping of the other athletes, but on the fact that NOBODY WANTS TO DO A CLEAR CHOICE OF LIFE DEDICATED AT THE ATHLETICS FOR A SHORT PART OF HIS LIFE, something Sondre did full time this year, with 223 days (till Fukuoka) in altitude, the most part alone, having focus in training, eating and resting only.
The quality of his training improved day after day. In January, it was for him difficult to run two following days between 3'45" and 3'50" per km, because his legs were stiff and tired after a normal workout. Today, he's not able running slower than 3'40", an sometimes I had to force him to run at regeneration speed, not faster the 3'45".
The increase of his aerobic base gave him the opportunity to have frequent sessions with high volume of km at HM speed (between 2'47" and 2'52" per km) and at Marathon speed (between 2'57" and 3'02" per km), and now these two different speeds are normal in the development of his training.
After this, we have to ask ourself : "Which are the real limits for one athlete of high but not exceptional talent, who has continuity in training, right modulation between hard sessions and recovery, big motivation, ability to grow mentally and as self confidence, AND DO EVERYTHING IN HIGH ALTITUDE ?
And, when we know it's possible this when white and clean, can we really believe that everybody running fast is doped, and EPO can give advantages for athletes REALLY well trained in altitude of 1 minute in 10000m and 4 minutes in Marathon ?
Do you think I can suppose Sondre could run under 2:02 assuming EPO ?
And somebody still has the courage to ask me "which proof you are that EPO doesn't work", continuing with the example of Lombard or Lance Armstrong, without understanding the difference from athletes at different level as talent, motivation and training (IN ALTITUDE) , or from runners and bikers ?
Clean your minds, start to believe in yourselves, and go in hard CLEAN training if are really interested in improving their performances.
Congrats to Moen and you as the coach Renato! :) To me it was no surprise he ran 2.05.38. I told in beforehand that he after the Valencia half in 59.48 should be able to run the marathon in 2 x 59.48 + 5 min = 2.04.36 ! .....and because he is marathon prepared to stay the distance. He has during the year lowered his 5000m down to 13.20 and also been faster at 10000m ......To me this performance was just normal according to his former times at shorter distances and prove once more that mathematics and running results are very closed connected to each other. :)
Also one very,very important thing have now been proven once more......It`s of very high importance to run the distance aerobic work at the runners very best individual pace!!! Moen have now difficulty to run slower than 3.40 min/ km in training you say. It`s like I "preach" all the time.....To reach your optimal capacity as a middle-longdistancer the 3 most important factors to develop are maxVO2-pace, lactic threshold pace and at last the very best individual aerobic power distance pace. Cheers!
COACH J.S
Just read!
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:
Again some doubt for something for me normal, when an athlete of good talent has continuity, motivation, tough and correct training, living (as Kenyan) in altitude for the most part of the year (223 days from the first of January).
The big performance of Moen, but especially the WAY he did, can clearly show two things :
1) White runners, with high talent (but not exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be like the best African, and sometimes also better.
2) Clean runners, with high talent (but non exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be at the top of the World, not depending their performance on the fact if are African or not.
Of course now there is some sceptic idiot who looks at doping as main reason of his improvement. Who know Moen (and my clear position) well know that he never used any supplement, also legal, because this is against our principles, and I think it's the best way for making the mind weak.
The big improvement of this year was very gradual, and now seems like an explosion only because there were more than 4 minutes between his previous marathon in Hannover and today, but we have to see at the time passed between them :
237 days, during which it's possible to build new situation, including a great increase of self confidence and personality.
In training, I already saw the potentiality for running 2:06, but what surprised also myself today is the interpretation of the race, and the personality he showed, attacking after 30 km, with 29'16" between 30 and 40 km and the last 2.195m still faster (for an average of 2'55" per km in the last 12.195m).
I will write, how already I did after his HM of Valencia in 59:48, his full plan between Valencia and Fukuoka (ALWAYS IN ALTITUDE).
I hope that this results, instead being considered connected with some doping, can bring people to think that the limits we put in our mind about the clean performances are not real, and depend not from the doping of the other athletes, but on the fact that NOBODY WANTS TO DO A CLEAR CHOICE OF LIFE DEDICATED AT THE ATHLETICS FOR A SHORT PART OF HIS LIFE, something Sondre did full time this year, with 223 days (till Fukuoka) in altitude, the most part alone, having focus in training, eating and resting only.
The quality of his training improved day after day. In January, it was for him difficult to run two following days between 3'45" and 3'50" per km, because his legs were stiff and tired after a normal workout. Today, he's not able running slower than 3'40", an sometimes I had to force him to run at regeneration speed, not faster the 3'45".
The increase of his aerobic base gave him the opportunity to have frequent sessions with high volume of km at HM speed (between 2'47" and 2'52" per km) and at Marathon speed (between 2'57" and 3'02" per km), and now these two different speeds are normal in the development of his training.
After this, we have to ask ourself : "Which are the real limits for one athlete of high but not exceptional talent, who has continuity in training, right modulation between hard sessions and recovery, big motivation, ability to grow mentally and as self confidence, AND DO EVERYTHING IN HIGH ALTITUDE ?
And, when we know it's possible this when white and clean, can we really believe that everybody running fast is doped, and EPO can give advantages for athletes REALLY well trained in altitude of 1 minute in 10000m and 4 minutes in Marathon ?
Do you think I can suppose Sondre could run under 2:02 assuming EPO ?
And somebody still has the courage to ask me "which proof you are that EPO doesn't work", continuing with the example of Lombard or Lance Armstrong, without understanding the difference from athletes at different level as talent, motivation and training (IN ALTITUDE) , or from runners and bikers ?
Clean your minds, start to believe in yourselves, and go in hard CLEAN training if are really interested in improving their performances.
Congrats to Moen and you as the coach Renato! :) To me it was no surprise he ran 2.05.38. I told in beforehand that he after the Valencia half in 59.48 should be able to run the marathon in 2 x 59.48 + 5 min = 2.04.36 ! .....and because he is marathon prepared to stay the distance. He has during the year lowered his 5000m down to 13.20 and also been faster at 10000m ......To me this performance was just normal according to his former times at shorter distances and prove once more that mathematics and running results are very closed connected to each other. :)
Also one very,very important thing have now been proven once more......It`s of very high importance to run the distance aerobic work at the runners very best individual pace!!! Moen have now difficulty to run slower than 3.40 min/ km in training you say. It`s like I "preach" all the time.....To reach your optimal capacity as a middle-longdistancer the 3 most important factors to develop are maxVO2-pace, lactic threshold pace and at last the very best individual aerobic power distance pace. Cheers!
COACH J.S
Just read![/quote]
Wooow! JS, the new coach Goat!
I would guess he's an asthmatic Norwegian like most of their elite athletes.
I would guess you are a brainless idiot like most of LR posters
Renato Canova wrote:
I would guess you are a brainless idiot like most of LR posters
Hello Renato! :) Nice to see you look to be okey in corona time.I think and believe you don`t count me in among "the brainless idiots", lol ?
I know of course the factors behind your coaching of Sondre witch mainly led to his success.
I have communicated this before , but it can be a good reminder to "the brainless idiots" here at
LRC.
I chat with Sondre some time before you started to coach him. He`s a very talented runner and has been in the Norwegian top since he was 13-14 years of age. I tried to convince him that he needed to speed up his normal easy pace and also check the other speeds for perfect execution. He dismissed what I said in about the words : "I have been in Kenya over 20 times and I know it`s no hokus pokus to train correctly like the Kenyans....... " The rest is history now.......
Take care, :)
COACH J.S
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
Coach JS is the king wrote:
Hey Coach JS, there's an Irish guy plagiarising your work and training plans and selling it off to unknowing mormons in the US.
I think he picked you as he has the same initials but mostly because he likes your style.
Keep an eye on him here:
https://www.strava.com/discussions/club/187128/postsIt`s okey. The number of persons that will try to plagiat my training system will be much more in few years.
But it doesn`t bother me. They can`t plagiat my brain, and they don`t know exactly how it functions with
"inbuilt periodization " and so on.
COACH J.S
LoL , what a smart guy this JS is! I just love his skill and eloquence.
COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:
Again some doubt for something for me normal, when an athlete of good talent has continuity, motivation, tough and correct training, living (as Kenyan) in altitude for the most part of the year (223 days from the first of January).
The big performance of Moen, but especially the WAY he did, can clearly show two things :
1) White runners, with high talent (but not exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be like the best African, and sometimes also better.
2) Clean runners, with high talent (but non exceptional like many Kenyans and Ethiopians), if chose to be ATHLETES having a main focus only for some year in running, can be at the top of the World, not depending their performance on the fact if are African or not.
Of course now there is some sceptic idiot who looks at doping as main reason of his improvement. Who know Moen (and my clear position) well know that he never used any supplement, also legal, because this is against our principles, and I think it's the best way for making the mind weak.
The big improvement of this year was very gradual, and now seems like an explosion only because there were more than 4 minutes between his previous marathon in Hannover and today, but we have to see at the time passed between them :
237 days, during which it's possible to build new situation, including a great increase of self confidence and personality.
In training, I already saw the potentiality for running 2:06, but what surprised also myself today is the interpretation of the race, and the personality he showed, attacking after 30 km, with 29'16" between 30 and 40 km and the last 2.195m still faster (for an average of 2'55" per km in the last 12.195m).
I will write, how already I did after his HM of Valencia in 59:48, his full plan between Valencia and Fukuoka (ALWAYS IN ALTITUDE).
I hope that this results, instead being considered connected with some doping, can bring people to think that the limits we put in our mind about the clean performances are not real, and depend not from the doping of the other athletes, but on the fact that NOBODY WANTS TO DO A CLEAR CHOICE OF LIFE DEDICATED AT THE ATHLETICS FOR A SHORT PART OF HIS LIFE, something Sondre did full time this year, with 223 days (till Fukuoka) in altitude, the most part alone, having focus in training, eating and resting only.
The quality of his training improved day after day. In January, it was for him difficult to run two following days between 3'45" and 3'50" per km, because his legs were stiff and tired after a normal workout. Today, he's not able running slower than 3'40", an sometimes I had to force him to run at regeneration speed, not faster the 3'45".
The increase of his aerobic base gave him the opportunity to have frequent sessions with high volume of km at HM speed (between 2'47" and 2'52" per km) and at Marathon speed (between 2'57" and 3'02" per km), and now these two different speeds are normal in the development of his training.
After this, we have to ask ourself : "Which are the real limits for one athlete of high but not exceptional talent, who has continuity in training, right modulation between hard sessions and recovery, big motivation, ability to grow mentally and as self confidence, AND DO EVERYTHING IN HIGH ALTITUDE ?
And, when we know it's possible this when white and clean, can we really believe that everybody running fast is doped, and EPO can give advantages for athletes REALLY well trained in altitude of 1 minute in 10000m and 4 minutes in Marathon ?
Do you think I can suppose Sondre could run under 2:02 assuming EPO ?
And somebody still has the courage to ask me "which proof you are that EPO doesn't work", continuing with the example of Lombard or Lance Armstrong, without understanding the difference from athletes at different level as talent, motivation and training (IN ALTITUDE) , or from runners and bikers ?
Clean your minds, start to believe in yourselves, and go in hard CLEAN training if are really interested in improving their performances.
Congrats to Moen and you as the coach Renato! :) To me it was no surprise he ran 2.05.38. I told in beforehand that he after the Valencia half in 59.48 should be able to run the marathon in 2 x 59.48 + 5 min = 2.04.36 ! .....and because he is marathon prepared to stay the distance. He has during the year lowered his 5000m down to 13.20 and also been faster at 10000m ......To me this performance was just normal according to his former times at shorter distances and prove once more that mathematics and running results are very closed connected to each other. :)
Also one very,very important thing have now been proven once more......It`s of very high importance to run the distance aerobic work at the runners very best individual pace!!! Moen have now difficulty to run slower than 3.40 min/ km in training you say. It`s like I "preach" all the time.....To reach your optimal capacity as a middle-longdistancer the 3 most important factors to develop are maxVO2-pace, lactic threshold pace and at last the very best individual aerobic power distance pace. Cheers!
COACH J.S
Check this and reason.
so 2 yrs....and no where near his "magical" 2:05 lolz