Yeah, that's a good reply. It's sad that you still cling to the terrible solution of allowing/requiring athletes to take meds to reduce their testosterone levels though.
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BP is my bro ham wrote:[/b
I wish you would provide more information on this "journalist" because it sounds like she is an "essayist" that will write an opinion piece that isn't factually based. That's not a Journalist to me.
The "journalist" has no problem twisting your words and she should really have no problem being named here.
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Everything in quotes came from rojo.So you're proposing all people to have their karyotype and genitalia public knowledge?
Catching up wrote:
dingle wrote:
Yeah rojo, you suggested that sex testing was appropriate because a potential husband for a female runner may want to know if she had internal testicles. So yeah, dated and bigoted.
I don't know if he said that or not, but my impression is that you're telling lies and making it up. With that said, what you posted should be law. As a woman I would not want to marry an intersexed male without prior knowledge of his unusual biological condition. What planet are you on where you think that type of thing would be acceptable????
Regarding athletics, we definitely need to have biological sex testing at this point, because intersex males are openly expressing the intention to take over women's athletics for themselves.
"I've been told that you don't want to "out people" but I don't get that argument.
Oh good grief, as long as you're a woman then you won't be outed about anything. If you're not a woman, then no one needs to know outside of the testing, but you will NOT be allowed to compete with women in women's events. Alternatively, you could just stay forever out of women's events, and avoid the required testing.
We as a society need to move beyond that. Semenya did nothing wrong. She has internal testicles. So what? If you were about to marry a Jelimo, and you were her husband, wouldn't you want to know if she had internal testicles or not?"
Well then move beyond it then. Semenya is wronging women by invading their events, and he's guilty as charged, so any repercussions are on him and the people who support him. I don't get your last point about Jelimo, but you're contradicting your argument against having biological sex testing.
If we could agree that only XX females who meet all the standards of being a 100 percent woman can compete in women's events, then that would a step forward.
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Also, once Caster Semenya wins gold at the Rio Olympics, the global public and mass media will join in to castrate the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS). Biological women like Melissa Bishop and Ajee Wilson will finally speak out and tell the world --- they never had a chance at gold. Instead, it was always about trying to podium, PR, and being an Olympian on the largest stage in the world.
Maybe it was a little about hooking up a the Olympic Village with a good-looking guy.
Caster Semenya and other medal winners like her will receive an asterisk next to their name.
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rojo wrote:
PS. If you are born without a penis, to be called a man would be tough.
Rojo,
You are putting together a good argument. One suggestion based on the above statement; ambiguous genitalia occurs often. For many years people with ambiguous genitalia were automatically classified as female because it was easier. Many of those that were men did not identify as female and wanted to be considered a male.
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you're not there yet wrote:
It's sad that you still cling to the terrible solution of allowing/requiring athletes to take meds to reduce their testosterone levels though.
No runner who has manipulated their levels of testosterone should be allowed to compete, and certainly not in women's athletic events.
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At this point we should just allow women to use test
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Catching up wrote:
As a woman I would not want to marry an intersexed male without prior knowledge of his unusual biological condition. What planet are you on where you think that type of thing would be acceptable????
Regarding athletics, we definitely need to have biological sex testing at this point, because intersex males are openly expressing the intention to take over women's athletics for themselves.
as long as you're a woman then you won't be outed about anything. If you're not a woman, then no one needs to know outside of the testing, but you will NOT be allowed to compete with women in women's events. Alternatively, you could just stay forever out of women's events, and avoid the required testing.
dingle wrote:
So you're proposing all people to have their karyotype and genitalia public knowledge?
Nope, that's not what I said.
Catching up wrote:
If we could agree that only XX females who meet all the standards of being a 100 percent woman can compete in women's events, then that would a step forward.
You're still arguing the point, so you must not agree.
Again this verifies that we can't have a reasoned discussion with the intersexed male representatives.
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You are correct in your reply. We have lost our way with the PC crap. Jenner is a man because his anatomy and DNA dictate that he is a man. If he wants to be called a woman, fine. But, don't insult me by showing me a man and telling me it's a woman. What Jenner needs is therapy to deal with his situation.
Semenya has a distinct advantage that anyone who has a working pair of eyes can plainly see. Her advantage is that she has an elevated level of testosterone, due to a "mistake" made by nature. It's not her fault, but if her condition can be corrected, while at the same time taking away her advantage, what's the frigging problem. Is there not any room for common sense when dealing with abnormalities. I feel sorry for Semenya because she has been subjected to so much scrutiny due to the "PC police."
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Amidst all the buzz around Semenya, et al, I'm surprised criticism around "fairness" isn't focused on the implications of said interests.
If Intersex athletes are allowed to compete in the female category going forward, the future of female athletics will be dominated by intersex athletes - a new market, if you will.
Intersex athletes, whether they refer to themselves as male or female, should compete as Intersex athletes in an Intersex category.
The future of SPORT is technology w/ genetic engineering. Bladed-Pistorians take note.
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unpopular opinion wrote:
At this point we should just allow women to use test
That would result in just one classification, the open events.
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To be clear, the issue IMHO should not revolve around self-defined sexuality, but genetic composition. Intersex athletes are of a breed that requires its own Oly category.
manoftraeees wrote:
Amidst all the buzz around Semenya, et al, I'm surprised criticism around "fairness" isn't focused on the implications of said interests.
If Intersex athletes are allowed to compete in the female category going forward, the future of female athletics will be dominated by intersex athletes - a new market, if you will.
Intersex athletes, whether they refer to themselves as male or female, should compete as Intersex athletes in an Intersex category.
The future of SPORT is technology w/ genetic engineering. Bladed-Pistorians take note.
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T&F Nut wrote:
if her condition can be corrected, while at the same time taking away her advantage, what's the frigging problem.
#1- He's a woman, and can't ever be made into a woman;
#2- The application of your solution has been tried, and failed, first of all because the limit was more than 3 times as high as that of a typical woman, and secondly because it was only loosely enforced, and then done away with.
#3- I don't feel sorry for Semenya, because he absolutely knows what he's doing, and doesn't care in the least.
I feel for the women who's event is being raped internationally by intersexed males like Semenya, and I feel for the women who have to tolerate him being in their races.
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Also, someone please tell me how unique cases like Semenya are any different from instances involving individuals named Oscar P?
manoftraeees wrote:
To be clear, the issue IMHO should not revolve around self-defined sexuality, but genetic composition.
Intersex athletes are of a breed that requires its own Oly category.
manoftraeees wrote:
Amidst all the buzz around Semenya, et al, I'm surprised criticism around "fairness" isn't focused on the implications of said interests.
If Intersex athletes are allowed to compete in the female category going forward, the future of female athletics will be dominated by intersex athletes - a new market, if you will.
Intersex athletes, whether they refer to themselves as male or female, should compete as Intersex athletes in an Intersex category.
The future of SPORT is technology w/ genetic engineering. Bladed-Pistorians take note.
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All comes down to the micropenis
manoftraeees wrote:
Relevant
http://www.nature.com/news/the-spectrum-of-sex-development-eric-vilain-and-the-intersex-controversy-1.1987300 -
habs wrote:
rojo wrote:
(she doesn't like me quoting Ross Tucker as he agrees with me and wants other science viewpoints presented- a name that came up was Sari Van Andrews)
I think she probably meant University of Michigan biopsychologist Sari van Anders:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~smva/people.htmlFor those interested, her comments about Semenya can be found in this article:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/30/science/la-sci-olympics-gender-20120730Notably:
LA Times wrote:
"We don't know much about the biological characteristics of testosterone in healthy women," said University of Michigan biopsychologist Sari van Anders. "People only tend to look at testosterone in women when there's a health issue."
The picture is particularly murky for Olympic-caliber women. Experts know of only one report on the relationship between testosterone and performance of elite female athletes. That study of 22 sprinters and volleyball players found that those with the highest levels could jump about 4 inches higher than those with the lowest levels.
But if testosterone were essential to athletic success, Martinez-Patiño would have been doomed to fail because her body can't use the hormone. Many women with androgen insensitivity have competed in the Olympics, and "the idea that testosterone is a necessary ingredient for elite athletic performance is really undermined by these cases," Van Anders said.
Just to be clear this woman is a paid professor at University of Michigan. She probably doesn't understand the basics of any of the fields she claims to participate in. Psychology, statistics, philosophy, chemistry, neurosciences, and more are all completely outside her purview, but that's not relevant to getting an academic job regurgitating the modern leftist nonsense. There are seriously hundreds of useful idiots like her at elite schools like UofM. Science, liberty, the enlightenment, philosophy, and academic integrity are all things which have nothing to do with being a professor like her. It's really scary that people are going into 6 figure debt to have their education and mind set back so far into the primitive realm as to likely be irrecoverable. Lunatics run the asylum.
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rojo wrote:
[quote]Another gal with 20/20 vision wrote:
Wambui - 2:01.32/1:57.52
That's a STAGGERING amoutn of improvement.
No. It is not.
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Make up your mind wrote:
Make up your mind wrote:
1) Semenya was born a man, is a man, and will always be a man.
2) He is not a woman and I'm not going to call him a woman, regardless what he wants.
3) My choice is to be honest, and I'm going to continue to be honest.
4) He is not a she. Calling him a she is a lie. That lie is the only reason he's in women's events, which is a total travesty, a rape of women on the international stage.
You have no mind wrote:
1) Semenya was not born a man. She was born intersex.
2) You're a bigot, rejecting differing opinions.
3) You're ignorant. Edify yourself.
Saying Semenya was not born a man is a lie.
You're the one who's an ignorant bigot, an example of the intersex male mentality who have been posting on here, making up lies to suit your narrow minded purposes, intent on taking over women's athletics, and not caring in the least that you're destroying women's athletics for real women.
What we need to understand is that there is no possibility to compromise with the intersex male lobby, because their only focus is this taking over of women's athletics, and they won't honestly discuss any alternative. Their only response is that anyone who doesn't agree with them taking over women's athletics is a reflection of their own close mindedness, and they refuse to acknowledge the truth.
There is no viable alternative but to keep the intersexed males OUT of women's athletics. They are welcome to form their own competitions, but I feel they should be sanctioned for trying to officially call themselves women.
Make up your mind, you have serious comprehension reality testing problems. You should really seek treatment for your traumatic brain injury.
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