Training in racing flats?

The zantes don't look like much of a racing ahoe, though. Am I looking at the right thing? Seems like the hanzos would be better suited for speed

gregtucker wrote:

The zantes don't look like much of a racing ahoe, though. Am I looking at the right thing? Seems like the hanzos would be better suited for speed

Yeah, they're a bit heavy and soft for anything fast. They'd be OK for a marathon, but there are quicker shoes out there. I'd consider them more like a level between flats and typical trainers.

This thread, and others like it in the early 2000s, convinced me to switch to training in racing flats. That was before there was such thing as a minimalist training shoe. I still do a good chunk of my mileage in racing flats, but I've actually found that I like rotating in some cushioned trainers as well. I think the big benefit to flats is that you develop a better stride when you do a lot of training in them, but if you've already got your stride, then there's no harm in a little cushioning, especially when you're beat up. If I did a hard workout in spikes on a Tuesday night, you'd better believe I'm shuffling along in Ultraboosts on Wednesday morning. The way I look at it is this: Heavier trainers essentially turn off your lower leg. It becomes this inert thing that just hits the ground. If your calves and feet aren't doing so hot, then cushioned trainers will give them a rest while allowing you to still get some miles in.

Also, as far as injuries go, I think training in flats basically sends the injury risk further down the leg. As soon as I started with flats, my hips and knees were suddenly bulletproof, for the first time. But I had more issues in my calves, achilles, and feet. It got better with time, but it's still my weak link. I guess there's no making up for the fact that I didn't grow up barefoot.

I train and race in the same shoes. Used to be Pegasus, no injuries, then switched to Luna racers (170g, 8mm drop) with no transition time, and this worked for me. Currently use Flyknit racers (160g, 8mm drop). I just train and race in the same shoes, makes sense to me.

This needs a 2018 bump.

I train in cushioned shoes ranging from 8-12mm. I race in Boost and the 1400's - both 10mm.

Would there be any benefit in bringing a flat into the mix?

What's your experience?

Funny to see that I posted in this thread under my real name in 2003.

If Jaguar1 sees this, could she tell us her path from Puma H-Streets to Vaporfly 4%s?

WOW!!!!!!!!

This thread in 2003 was the catalyst to changing from heavy shoes to racing flats. 14 years ago I took my heavy, high cushioned, motion controlled shoes and my orthotics (that I *had* to wear for the rest of my life) and threw them away. I put on a pair of flats and have never looked back.

I wish I could say the transition was seamless, but it wasn't - I did get injured again. But I got more miles in than I had been doing before. And as the months went by I was able to handle more and more. And as the years went by I got injured less and less.

Fast forward 14 years and I have not been injured at all for 7yr or so. I run over 100mpw routinely - over the years I have had a 37 week 100mpw streak and a 32 week streak twice as well. I have run exclusively in Altras for the last 4 years - perfect for this natural approach with zero drop and a foot shaped toe box. I run in One 2.5, 3.0 and Escalante. Solstice arriving next week.

Quite emotional looking back at the thread that started it all - I'd still probably be a 40-50mpw, frequently injured, often fat runner without it.

And great to see the old posters here - dunesrunnner, JEH (miss you!), Greg Ward, HRE and Jaguar1 who emailed me privately several times when I was unsure of taking the plunge.

If you are reading this thread now and unsure of whether to do this, I sincerely hope you do as I did. So glad I found this thread in 2003 - it is no exaggeration to say it changed my life dramatically.

I've still got s bump on the bottom of me foot from doing this as they felt light in the feet. A plantar fibroma.

None of the elites do this wear proper trainers. Flats are ok for doing speed work but not regular runs

ukathleticscoach wrote:

I've still got s bump on the bottom of me foot from doing this as they felt light in the feet. A plantar fibroma.

None of the elites do this wear proper trainers. Flats are ok for doing speed work but not regular runs

I assume that your first sentence is saying that elites do not do regular runs in flats but am not sure because it could mean that none of the elites do "this," and this refers to wearing proper trainers. It really is not written clearly.

Going on my initial assumption, I'm going to say that's not completely true. Most of what of the top Japanese run regularly in would be counted as flats. People like Anne Audain and Jack Foster did all of their regular running in racing shoes. Audain was born with misshapen feet, I forget exactly what the problem was, but she needed multiple surgeries. When she started running she needed to run in flats. She told me that when Nike started putting air into their shoes it made the shoes too soft and she had to get them to keep on making her old model. Jack thought that thin, light, shoes taught "proper foot placement."

I'm not sure how heavily runners should base their shoe choices on what elites wear, or really on what anyone else wears either. For one thing, elites are generally paid to wear the shoes they do. For another, they may well be "elite" enough to hold up well in a lot of different shoes and have more range in what they can wear than some of us because they're, well, elite. I cannot tolerate much cushioning at all anymore, I need things like cross country flats, Mizuno Wave Universes, Asics Sortie Magics and so on. I can't ignore that and get a pair of Hokas just because a lot of elites do well in them. And you had trouble running regularly in racing shoes. You shouldn't ignore that and force yourself into racers just because guys like Pantman and I need them.

Flash from the past!

I moved to training in traditional road flats in 2008 and felt better with the added cushioning. I wore Nike Lunaracers mostly the past few years until trying the Vaporfly's this fall and loving them. They are a lot more shoe than I'm used to, but they're light and the geometry and internal plate helps you spring and roll forward. They're super soft too, and personally I like them the best after a few hundred miles on the shoes.

Reflecting back on shoes like the Puma H Streets- Jack Daniels said it the best (see below from 2012) that lighter is better for running economy, but too light can be detrimental. He goes on to say the most economical shoe was a thick, spongy material that wasn't so light. There's been a lot of innovation in midsole materials the past 5 years. The Zoom X in the Vaporfly's is definitely revolutionary, while keeping the shoe light.

I currently have been training in the Flyknit Racers and love how they feel, but I am beginning to feel slight fatigue from taking them on longer distances. Are there any shoes that "split the difference" between Pegasus and Flyknit Racer. Doesn't necessarily need to be Nike.

I run in Asics Sortie Magics for most of my runs now. I started wearing them about 5 years ago when I went to Japan and found them. Also been running mostly in racing flats for about 8 years. Seems to work for me. No real injuries since that time. Can't say its works for everyone. I am not as light as I was in my 20's but still light enough. Used to wear the Internationalist and the Pegasus but prefer flats now.

rachgia wrote:

I currently have been training in the Flyknit Racers and love how they feel, but I am beginning to feel slight fatigue from taking them on longer distances. Are there any shoes that "split the difference" between Pegasus and Flyknit Racer. Doesn't necessarily need to be Nike.

Give the Nike Speed Rivals a shot. They’re a cross between the Streak 6 (which I think is too firm) and the Elite 9. Just the right amount of softness. They’re also super cheap at Running Warehouse right now. Same size as Flyknit Racers.

Lots of people are going minimalist. No need for a new thread.

Minimal wrote:

Lots of people are going minimalist. No need for a new thread.

Did you just reply to a post from over 15 years ago to tell them they didn't need to start a new thread?

I've running in zero drop minimalist shoes for 1 year now. I've been able to to 200 mile weeks. Just cause. Merrell Trail Glove # and the Vapor glove.

5 toe shoe I'm thinking about wrote:

I've running in zero drop minimalist shoes for 1 year now. I've been able to to 200 mile weeks. Just cause. Merrell Trail Glove # and the Vapor glove.

Same. 100 miles weeks are easy now and I run in Vapor Gloves ALL THE TIME. Changing to minimalist shoes is the best thing I ever did for my running. :)

bump just for fun

Yokohama wrote:

I run in Asics Sortie Magics for most of my runs now. I started wearing them about 5 years ago when I went to Japan and found them. Also been running mostly in racing flats for about 8 years. Seems to work for me. No real injuries since that time. Can't say its works for everyone. I am not as light as I was in my 20's but still light enough. Used to wear the Internationalist and the Pegasus but prefer flats now.

I wish I could get them. Running warehouse never gets the true made in Japan shoes. They had the Tarther, but it was clear it was an export version. Tarther flopped so doubt they'll do it again.