That's what Putin is saying too. He is there to end the war (genocide in East Ukraine since 2014), not to start one. Either you accept both statements, or none.
Putin is an immoral actor. What he says is moral means nothing.
The US saved MILLIONS of Japanese lives by bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No one who knows the first thing about WW2 disputes this.
There were 110,000 Japanese soldiers and conscripts on Okinawa and the US had to kill every one of them. THOUSANDS of Japanese civilians killed their families and committed suicide rather than surrender.
Without the atomic bombs the US has to invade the mainland and MILLIONS would have died.
Do you hear yourself? Saving millions of Japanese, by not invading them and killing them? Maybe you also save girls from rape by not raping them?
What exactly has Japan done to the US to deserve 200.000 killed civilians?
And also, what has Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria and Pakistan have done to the US to have almost 400.000 civilians killed by the US army?
Ukraine is peanuts compared to that, so don't act appalled, you must be very much used to seing dead civilians on TV.
It's right about time the US calls all of its military home and puts soldiers where they're supposed to be - in defensive service. Otherwise it's a lot of talk about Russia from people, who spend more of their budget on killing civilians abroad than Russia spends on food.
the unprecedented censorship regime imposed in the West in the name of the war in Ukraine, a series of ostensible crises — Russiagate, the 1/6 riot, the COVID pandemic and now this war — have, in rapid succession, convinced not just liberals but increasingly large numbers of Westerners in many ideological camps not only to tolerate but to crave state/corporate censorship. They have somehow inverted history so that they now believe that it is not censorship that is the favored tool of fascists, tyrants and authoritarians — even though every fascist and despot in history used censorship as a key means for maintaining power — but instead believe that it is free speech, free discourse, and free thought that are the instruments of repression. Few events have revealed this twisted framework as vividly as the news that Elon Musk offered on Wednesday to buy Twitter and take it private. The fact that Musk has repeatedly denounced Twitter's increasingly heavy-handed and clearly ideological censorship regime does not mean he is earnest in his intention to restore free speech to the platform, but the mere possibility that he does intend to do so has sent censorship-dependent liberals into spasms of panic and hysteria. Before the morning was over, some were even comparing Musk's offer to . . . . . the rise of Nazism in the 1930s:
Where ever you plagiarized this from makes you sounds like a grade-A conspiracy theory nutjob that also believes the US has UFOs and alien corpses recovered from Roswell in cryogenic storage at Area-51.
Yes, this is - for the umpteenth time on this thread - the MAIN point: Don't scare your neighbors, and they won't band together in opposition to you. And when they do, we don't want to hear your whining.
But it's ALSO true that if we DID get really upset at Mexico for some POSSIBLE alliance, we wouldn't conduct a full-scale invasion of Mexico AND be shelling-to-rubble Mexican villages right now.
But yeah, the U.S. and Russia are the same.
My god, the dumb-assery.
Oh, and continuing on the dumb equivalencies theme, I'm curious what the Cuban Missile Crisis VS Ukraine Invasion tally board is looking like?
On the one side (which included Russian nuclear missiles), you have the U.S. killing exactly ZERO Cuban service members or civilians.
And on the OTHER side (with no foreign nukes, and not even a protective membership in sight).....how many Ukrainians has Putin killed by now? And how many to come?
Almost seems like the situations and behavior might be a LOT different.
Google the Bay of Pigs Invasion, Operation Northwood and Operation Mongoose. Until then any discussion with you is pointless.
The only difference, the US is sneaky, secretive and caniving and Russia is primitive and brutal.
Oh, and continuing on the dumb equivalencies theme, I'm curious what the Cuban Missile Crisis VS Ukraine Invasion tally board is looking like?
On the one side (which included Russian nuclear missiles), you have the U.S. killing exactly ZERO Cuban service members or civilians.
And on the OTHER side (with no foreign nukes, and not even a protective membership in sight).....how many Ukrainians has Putin killed by now? And how many to come?
Almost seems like the situations and behavior might be a LOT different.
Google the Bay of Pigs Invasion, Operation Northwood and Operation Mongoose. Until then any discussion with you is pointless.
The only difference, the US is sneaky, secretive and caniving and Russia is primitive and brutal.
"America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."
So I'm curious how much of this is Azov doing in Ukraine, to finally get NATO to play along.
The quote is taken from an article on Operation Northwood: on
the unprecedented censorship regime imposed in the West in the name of the war in Ukraine, a series of ostensible crises — Russiagate, the 1/6 riot, the COVID pandemic and now this war — have, in rapid succession, convinced not just liberals but increasingly large numbers of Westerners in many ideological camps not only to tolerate but to crave state/corporate censorship. They have somehow inverted history so that they now believe that it is not censorship that is the favored tool of fascists, tyrants and authoritarians — even though every fascist and despot in history used censorship as a key means for maintaining power — but instead believe that it is free speech, free discourse, and free thought that are the instruments of repression. Few events have revealed this twisted framework as vividly as the news that Elon Musk offered on Wednesday to buy Twitter and take it private. The fact that Musk has repeatedly denounced Twitter's increasingly heavy-handed and clearly ideological censorship regime does not mean he is earnest in his intention to restore free speech to the platform, but the mere possibility that he does intend to do so has sent censorship-dependent liberals into spasms of panic and hysteria. Before the morning was over, some were even comparing Musk's offer to . . . . . the rise of Nazism in the 1930s:
Where ever you plagiarized this from makes you sounds like a grade-A conspiracy theory nutjob that also believes the US has UFOs and alien corpses recovered from Roswell in cryogenic storage at Area-51.
Do you know what plagiarizing is? Seems you don't
Whenever I copy and paste an article that seems to contain data and ideas that are worth consideration, I get accused of plagiarizing and then you guys start talking about flat earth, moon landings, kool-aid drinking, etc.
Seems those most susceptible to the lies we are fed from the media and our pols are the people who operate on an emotional rather than intellectual basis
Putin is an immoral actor. What he says is moral means nothing.
The US saved MILLIONS of Japanese lives by bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No one who knows the first thing about WW2 disputes this.
There were 110,000 Japanese soldiers and conscripts on Okinawa and the US had to kill every one of them. THOUSANDS of Japanese civilians killed their families and committed suicide rather than surrender.
Without the atomic bombs the US has to invade the mainland and MILLIONS would have died.
Do you hear yourself? Saving millions of Japanese, by not invading them and killing them? Maybe you also save girls from rape by not raping them?
What exactly has Japan done to the US to deserve 200.000 killed civilians?
And also, what has Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria and Pakistan have done to the US to have almost 400.000 civilians killed by the US army?
Ukraine is peanuts compared to that, so don't act appalled, you must be very much used to seing dead civilians on TV.
It's right about time the US calls all of its military home and puts soldiers where they're supposed to be - in defensive service. Otherwise it's a lot of talk about Russia from people, who spend more of their budget on killing civilians abroad than Russia spends on food.
Japan probably killed 200,000 infants with bayonets between 1933 and 1945...
Japan absolutely deserved everything it got in WW2.
Your point on the other wars has validity. I just disagree strongly on Japan.
The UN is not aware of any biological weapons programme being conducted in Ukraine, the Organization’s disarmament chief told the Security Council once more on Friday, responding to fresh allegations by the Russian Federation...
the unprecedented censorship regime imposed in the West in the name of the war in Ukraine, a series of ostensible crises — Russiagate, the 1/6 riot, the COVID pandemic and now this war — have, in rapid succession, convinced not just liberals but increasingly large numbers of Westerners in many ideological camps not only to tolerate but to crave state/corporate censorship. They have somehow inverted history so that they now believe that it is not censorship that is the favored tool of fascists, tyrants and authoritarians — even though every fascist and despot in history used censorship as a key means for maintaining power — but instead believe that it is free speech, free discourse, and free thought that are the instruments of repression. Few events have revealed this twisted framework as vividly as the news that Elon Musk offered on Wednesday to buy Twitter and take it private. The fact that Musk has repeatedly denounced Twitter's increasingly heavy-handed and clearly ideological censorship regime does not mean he is earnest in his intention to restore free speech to the platform, but the mere possibility that he does intend to do so has sent censorship-dependent liberals into spasms of panic and hysteria. Before the morning was over, some were even comparing Musk's offer to . . . . . the rise of Nazism in the 1930s:
Where ever you plagiarized this from makes you sounds like a grade-A conspiracy theory nutjob that also believes the US has UFOs and alien corpses recovered from Roswell in cryogenic storage at Area-51.
He plagiarized it from Glenn Greewald on the Substack platform. Of course, no quotation marks, no credit to the real author. carmine9 is a cheap thief, and doesn't even have good taste in what he takes.
"America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."
So I'm curious how much of this is Azov doing in Ukraine, to finally get NATO to play along.
The lies from Ukraine are not for the benefit of NATO -- which is all in and is probably calling the shots -- but are part of the propaganda campaign aimed at the people of America and Europe.
And please keep in mind what's been covered already: biological research facility does not equal bioweapons lab.
My God. Victoria Nuland admitted as much on live television. And then proceeded to state her fear Russia would get a hold of them; not something to be afraid of if not weapons labs.
You are citing all the attempts to put the horse back in the barn
That's a worthless rabbit trail. Putin doesn't want war with all of NATO (especially in light of his military's performance -- even if Russia prevails Putin must be shaken at the sloppy performance). And dropping a nuke on Helsinki or Oslo results in a vaporized Russia, as well as a large number of cities elsewhere.
Who do you think is gonna vaporize Russia if they nuke Sweden or Finland? Neither are NATO members, just like Ukraine isn't.
I mean, I know they're not gonna do it, but even hypthetically speaking. NATO doesn't have to protect non-members.
Finland and Sweden are currently members of the EU, which Ukraine is not. The Treaty on the European Union has a mutual defense clause (47.2):
This clause provides that if an EU country is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other EU countries have an obligation to aid and assist it by all the means in their power...
So, a conventional (i.e., non nuclear) Russian attack on Finland tomorrow would still bring about a pretty severe response from EU nations. Once they join NATO it means an even stronger response, but it's not like Russia is free to attack either Finland or Sweden now without serious repercussions. Not to mention, the Russian military is already stretched thin... opening another 800 mile long front is probably not well-advised.
And please keep in mind what's been covered already: biological research facility does not equal bioweapons lab.
My God. Victoria Nuland admitted as much on live television. And then proceeded to state her fear Russia would get a hold of them; not something to be afraid of if not weapons labs.
You are citing all the attempts to put the horse back in the barn
No she didn't.
Please re-read, or read, the last sentence of my post.
And please keep in mind what's been covered already: biological research facility does not equal bioweapons lab.
My God. Victoria Nuland admitted as much on live television. And then proceeded to state her fear Russia would get a hold of them; not something to be afraid of if not weapons labs.
You are citing all the attempts to put the horse back in the barn
No. She didn't. Please find where she mentions bioweapons labs on live television. Post the clip. It must be on youtube by now with all the nutters out there that keep saying it. Are you really incapable of distinguishing bioresearch labs and bioweapons labs? Do you think every university in the world with a biology department is make bioweapons?
Where ever you plagiarized this from makes you sounds like a grade-A conspiracy theory nutjob that also believes the US has UFOs and alien corpses recovered from Roswell in cryogenic storage at Area-51.
Do you know what plagiarizing is? Seems you don't
Whenever I copy and paste an article that seems to contain data and ideas that are worth consideration, I get accused of plagiarizing and then you guys start talking about flat earth, moon landings, kool-aid drinking, etc.
Seems those most susceptible to the lies we are fed from the media and our pols are the people who operate on an emotional rather than intellectual basis
I posted the definition (with a source) in a previous post. Apparently you missed it.
Definition of plagiarize transitive verb : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
Copying and pasting without providing a reference is plagiarizing. So, now that we've determined that I know what plagiarizing is, let me ask: do you know what plagiarizing is?
to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source; to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing...
My God. Victoria Nuland admitted as much on live television. And then proceeded to state her fear Russia would get a hold of them; not something to be afraid of if not weapons labs.
You are citing all the attempts to put the horse back in the barn
No. She didn't. Please find where she mentions bioweapons labs on live television. Post the clip. It must be on youtube by now with all the nutters out there that keep saying it. Are you really incapable of distinguishing bioresearch labs and bioweapons labs? Do you think every university in the world with a biology department is make bioweapons?
Or, carmine could simply re-read the last week or so of this thread. Because Nuland's testimony has already been discussed extensively, and the contention that she admitted that Ukraine has bioweapons labs was shown to be false.
Not sure what your point is, since neither the United States nor NATO have any military bases in Ukraine. And Russia still invaded.
They got bioweapons labs. And have been using NATO to train Ukraine military. And were neck deep in the overthrow of the elected govt in 2014.
Sweet Heart every nation on earth has bio weapons labs. You'd be an irresponsible nation if you weren't trying to keep up with your evil neighbors. And if the price is right maybe an other nation would be willing to host your labs. What's the problem with that? If our enemies are doing this, we should be doing it ourselves. If for no other reason than showing the other side that we're all in on Mutual Mass Destruction.
