If she was going to make a drug fueled big improvement she would have needed to be really hitting the PED's hard all year. Surely it would be difficult to get around the testers, or at least she would have one or two missed tests under her belt.
She ran the 5th all time fastest 1500 of all time. Look at some of the men's 5th fastest all time in the distance events...
They are universally recognized as all-time greats." Hull has been in her prime for a number of years now. She has never been dominant. I wouldn't call her an also-ran but she never has been dominant or considered an all-time great. She has often finished in the "middle of the pack." The male runners never did that. They were always the ones who finished first.
BINGO! Hull was't even Laura Muir. When she was 27, Laura had won 8 DL races (including a final) and come close to medalling. Hull 1.0 had done none of those things. Hull 2.0 jumped right past Muir to # 5 all-time, a full second ahead of Hassan.
Clearly, given all of the big PRs lately, it isn't just Hull. But no other top tier pro has jumped 6.5 seconds so far so fast, so Hull isn't just another boat floating up on a rising tide.
Hassan dropping from 3:56.14 to 3:51.95 (4.19s) comes close.
BINGO! Hull was't even Laura Muir. When she was 27, Laura had won 8 DL races (including a final) and come close to medalling. Hull 1.0 had done none of those things. Hull 2.0 jumped right past Muir to # 5 all-time, a full second ahead of Hassan.
Clearly, given all of the big PRs lately, it isn't just Hull. But no other top tier pro has jumped 6.5 seconds so far so fast, so Hull isn't just another boat floating up on a rising tide.
Hassan dropping from 3:56.14 to 3:51.95 (4.19s) comes close.
The other time drop we have all been recently calling out has been Nikki Hiltz (4:04.12 --> 3:59.61 --> 3:55.33) at 29 years old. Always suspicious when a runner over 25 has a massive performance jump. PRs in the late 20s/early 30s can and do happen, but they are typically at very small margins (example: Laura Muir. While she did just PR, she had run as fast as within 1.43 seconds of this time 8 years ago and within 1.5 seconds each of the last 2 years).
Hassan dropping from 3:56.14 to 3:51.95 (4.19s) comes close.
The other time drop we have all been recently calling out has been Nikki Hiltz (4:04.12 --> 3:59.61 --> 3:55.33) at 29 years old. Always suspicious when a runner over 25 has a massive performance jump. PRs in the late 20s/early 30s can and do happen, but they are typically at very small margins (example: Laura Muir. While she did just PR, she had run as fast as within 1.43 seconds of this time 8 years ago and within 1.5 seconds each of the last 2 years).
I also think it should be pointed out that 4 seconds from 3:59 to 3:55 and 7 seconds from 3:57 to 3:50 are not even close to equivalent. In 2023, Hull was marginally better than Hiltz (slightly ahead in both their head-to-head meetings, slightly faster PB). In 2024, Hiltz has completely leveled up, running a big PB at USAs and winning a world indoor medal. Despite that, Hull has massively opened the gap, and has jumped from competing with runners like Hiltz and Hall to competing with the GOAT of the event. If people think Hiltz's 2024 has been suspicious...then WTAF is this?
The other time drop we have all been recently calling out has been Nikki Hiltz (4:04.12 --> 3:59.61 --> 3:55.33) at 29 years old. Always suspicious when a runner over 25 has a massive performance jump. PRs in the late 20s/early 30s can and do happen, but they are typically at very small margins (example: Laura Muir. While she did just PR, she had run as fast as within 1.43 seconds of this time 8 years ago and within 1.5 seconds each of the last 2 years).
I also think it should be pointed out that 4 seconds from 3:59 to 3:55 and 7 seconds from 3:57 to 3:50 are not even close to equivalent. In 2023, Hull was marginally better than Hiltz (slightly ahead in both their head-to-head meetings, slightly faster PB). In 2024, Hiltz has completely leveled up, running a big PB at USAs and winning a world indoor medal. Despite that, Hull has massively opened the gap, and has jumped from competing with runners like Hiltz and Hall to competing with the GOAT of the event. If people think Hiltz's 2024 has been suspicious...then WTAF is this?
Im not sure why posters are (un)intentionally missing the fact that Hull had a 3.55.97 lifetime best, not 3:57.
I also think it should be pointed out that 4 seconds from 3:59 to 3:55 and 7 seconds from 3:57 to 3:50 are not even close to equivalent. In 2023, Hull was marginally better than Hiltz (slightly ahead in both their head-to-head meetings, slightly faster PB). In 2024, Hiltz has completely leveled up, running a big PB at USAs and winning a world indoor medal. Despite that, Hull has massively opened the gap, and has jumped from competing with runners like Hiltz and Hall to competing with the GOAT of the event. If people think Hiltz's 2024 has been suspicious...then WTAF is this?
Im not sure why posters are (un)intentionally missing the fact that Hull had a 3.55.97 lifetime best, not 3:57.
That 3:55.97 was from just over a month ago. She’s dropped 6.xx from her best time prior to this year.
Well, since you mentioned it, I think there actually may be room for evolutionary improvement in the air-bag spikes. A few years ago, I understood the air-bags for the commercially available shoes were going to be set to 15psi for women, and 20psi (or was it 25psi?) for men. However, I thought I read a small blurb in the past year where “N” was going to be experimenting with different bag pressures.
I can only imagine the downvotes to this quite interesting and germane post are from the woefully ignorant on the matter, or from a contingent that doesn’t want it over the target. Whatevs.
Hi Coach Timmons
Well of course the question would then become, in the event that Nike were experimenting with different "bag pressures" (basically akin to adjusting the density of a foam), would that lead to such a staggering performance increase (as we can all simply agree it was) specifically with Ms Hull?
Then we should ask ourselves, Did Nike take into account her body weight, the temperature in Paris yesterday and of course the density and resilience properties of the tracks surface because all of this would need to be considered when creating a spike that worked so well specifically with her on this specific day and nobody else (certainly not to this extreme degree).
I guess it's possible. Maybe not necessarily plausible but possible.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
How often do deeply experienced athletes take 7 seconds off their 1500 PR in one year at the age of 27?
Nike athlete. Who is her coach, and where is she based?
It's an Olympic year. She has for sure leveled up her training so that she could be at her best right about now. It does make sense to me that she is where she is. She has been getting faster over the past year in small increments. Over the indoor season she had some really good races. I think her progression is explained if you follow her race history over the past year. I think she has been working her butt off to be running the fastest she possibly can at this Olympics.
Im not sure why posters are (un)intentionally missing the fact that Hull had a 3.55.97 lifetime best, not 3:57.
That 3:55.97 was from just over a month ago. She’s dropped 6.xx from her best time prior to this year.
It truly can't be this difficult to understand. Hull placed second at Pre in a race that went 3:08 at 1200, running 3:55. She placed second in Paris in a race that went 3:04, running 4+ seconds faster than she did in the 3:55 race. She was unable to fully sustain that pace, but she extended herself as long as she could hold on and was rewarded for that bravery.
Sinclaire Johnson ran 4:00.43 at Pre in a race that went out in 3:08 (which she didn't follow). The USA OT race hit 3:08 (which she did follow) and she improved to 3:56. Tackling the leader can lead to fast times. Tackling the leader in a swiftly-run race can lead to even faster times.
Let's look at the 3:55.28 that Muir ran in Eugene at the 2022 World Athletics Championships. She attacked the race with Kipyegon and Tsegay early, from the start, before that trio seriously gapped the chase pack. I bring this to mind not because of Muir's outright time, but because she only had a 4:02 SB prior to that final (due to a number of challenges). Why did she improve seven seconds in her first sub-four of the season? She went with the 3:07 carved out by Tsegay with Kipyegon a stride ahead of herself. Hull and Johnson? Timidly behind in 3:13. They'd never close that gap on Muir, who finished six seconds ahead of them both.
Lesson: To run fast, chase a fast pace. Don't hesitate.
Hassan dropping from 3:56.14 to 3:51.95 (4.19s) comes close.
The other time drop we have all been recently calling out has been Nikki Hiltz (4:04.12 --> 3:59.61 --> 3:55.33) at 29 years old. Always suspicious when a runner over 25 has a massive performance jump. PRs in the late 20s/early 30s can and do happen, but they are typically at very small margins (example: Laura Muir. While she did just PR, she had run as fast as within 1.43 seconds of this time 8 years ago and within 1.5 seconds each of the last 2 years).
Hiltz also ran 4:16 for the mile in 2023 which is worth a 3:58. 4:01.5 in old spikes probably worth a 3:59 in Doha and consider it was a semifinal and Nikki’s second race in 2 days. Definitely an improvement of about 3-4s pre-Doha level over the last 2 seasons. That’s entirely different than the 3:50 level especially considering 5 women ran under 3:57 in a semi last year.
Im not sure why posters are (un)intentionally missing the fact that Hull had a 3.55.97 lifetime best, not 3:57.
Oh, grow up! Nobody is "missing this fact." They are ignoring it b/c they are comparing Hull THIS YEAR to Hull LAST YEAR.
Maybe instead of strawmanning, you could explain why it's not intersting to point out that Hull has made a staggering improvement over last year.
If a random dude ran 3:33 last year and then all of a sudden ran 3:27 we would all be suspicious just like Mo Katir and guess what the guy WAS DOPING. And I liked him. Jessica Hull hope she's not doping but now she's suspicious and I would not be surprised if she gets caught.
