Three more Kenyan runners busted

Kenyan crime is low. Its Somalis who are dangerous.

I hope you understand there will be variation in how much time EPO will give to the individual runner? With EPO and a very good coach it's possible to go from 30:10 to 27:40, without EPO but with a very good coach impossible.

I think it is premature to say "impossible".

I chose 2001 because it's 20 years prior to 2021 and the height of the EPO era. If that was the height of Kenyan 1500m running, it's because it was the height of the EPO era.

Why don't you attempt to answer the question? Why are Kenyans running so much slower over 1500m today than at the height of the EPO era? Why was there only two non African and non Hispanic runners in the top 17 in 2001 and yet 3 out of the top 5 in 2021 were white (non Hispanic) European if according to you and Rekrunner, at the height of the EPO era everybody was doping equally?

*why was there NO non African/Hispanic runners in the top 17 in 2001, and 3 of the top 5 in 2021?

In 2001 6 Kenyans broke 13:00 and 12 of the top 20 in the world were Kenyans, including 6 of the top 7.

In 2021 1 Kenyan broke 13:00 and just 3 of the top 20 in the world were Kenyans, the best being only number 10.

BTW, how come Ethiopia is becoming MORE competitive over 1500 and 5000 despite also becoming also MORE competitive over the marathon and roads? Why isn't Ethiopian talent on the track being drained away like Kenya's supposedly is?

They aren’t, the only thing that has at all fallen off is the depth. Instead of 6-8 sub-3:32 guys, is it that crazy some years it will be more like 3-5? Not to me, especially when the 800 is the exact mirror opposite with more sub-1:44 guys than in 2001. The top guys are running as fast/faster.

You refuse to take accountability for non Africans failures in the 1993-2010 period which had nothing to do with Africans but everything to do with systemic failures. I’m American and it was embarrassing when clearly with Scott/Spivey/Kenah/Wolhuter/Gray there was the ability to have 3:31 and 1:43 guys every year and yet we had one guy (Webb) who was completely erratic. That was it until Manzano/Centrowitz/Symmonds and the new group. You should feel the same with British Athletics after the golden era.

I understand. I usually hate to "agree to disagree", finding it is a cop-out, but without stronger evidence, we will not converge. Here is the root of the divergence:

You say "there are drugs that show strong evidence of helping you run faster than you could on your own". For EPO and distance running, all things considered, I don't find the evidence strong.

I don't need double-blind studies. For a long time, I would not and did not question EPO benefits for cycling given the known and suspected high prevalence among all of the winnners.

But we don't have that level of knowledge for distance running among all of the winners -- only suspicion.

Steroids is another topic. If I were consistent, I would look at the complete set of the best baseball performances, and look for patterns that can correlate steroids with better baseball performances.

If I found out you ran a 2:30 marathon at age 69, I might suspect you of taking Testosterone. I wouldn't suspect you of taking EPO, but I would find it believable that you believed EPO would help.

To point A the world got better. That is independent of Kenyans and relates to Uganda, Ethiopia, Canada and the US. There was also just one fast international 5k (Florence) last year and then the weird DL final 5k. There were 2 sub-13 Kenyans in 2021 btw. And Krop ran 7:30.07 for 3,000, 13:02 on the weird DL one. There was another Kenyan at 13:01. Kenyan-born Paul Chelimo also went under.
Ethiopia is having a boom there is no question, and while they have a lot of guys Kenya doubles to triples them in terms of sub-60 HM guys.

@Coevett

You know that Mourith had hold the European records for 3000m and 5000m, for more than 20 years.

Add this to your "white glory" agenda.

I posted the article just to prove to you that I'm not afraid to face the truth.

Not like you who hide under diverse anonymous user names.

What is wrong with you?

I never said "everybody was doping equally". Whatever I told you was not according to me, but according to WADA reports, and other "unofficial" breakdowns of blood doping by country, showing Kenya and Ethiopia below average.

If you asked my opinion about who was taking EPO in the '90s, I would say it was disproportionally the Americans, Europeans, and Russians and a handful of other Eastern European countries, with a proven culture of doping.

What are you talking about? Are you saying that you wrote the article? Otherwise, what is the big deal of you posting an article of a convicted dope cheat protesting his innocence, and then you proclaiming it as evidence of Moroccan superiority?

Ramzi, Mouriht - is there any convicted Moroccan doper you don't still idolize and defend? Are you a competing runner, btw?

This goes in the file of absurd claims by rekrunner that destroy any credibility he has of being rational and objective. So you deny that EPO works, and you claim that Europeans and Americans were using it more than North Africans and East Africans. Right. You're like the guy who believes he is Napoleon and thinks he's right because a few others in bedlam tell him he is, and anyone who doubts it in the outside world is insane.

This page represents LetsRun at its very worst. Some Moroccan guy ranting unintelligible nonsense about convicted dopers proving genetic superiority of his race, and another full-time poster claiming EPO doesn't work and that Moroccans and East Africans were the least worst offenders in the EPO era they dominated.

Don't know why I still bother with you Rekrunner, but one last question - do you accept that Moroccan performances declined after EPO testing was brought in and the ABP?

Which part is not rational and not objective? I will consider any contradictory evidence if you have it.

This page does contain 9 posts from you -- I guess that's about as bad as it gets.

When exactly is "EPO testing"? The milestones seems to shift from 2000 to 2017.

When you say Moroccan performances, which event do you mean? In one of my detailed all-time performance analyses, I found that, averaging the top 5 fastest North African athletes each Olympic cycle:

- In the 1500m, performance peaked in the period of 2000-2004, coinciding with El G's reign (I remind you that popular opinion was 43% he was clean according to a letsrun poll), and still remained fairly competitive through 2016

- In the 5000m, performance peaked in the period of 1996-2000, then steadily declined thereafter

- In the marathon, performance never really peaked