I can hear a barking sound.
I can hear a barking sound.
liar soorer wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
It would be an exercise in futility, as well as a demonstration of stupidity, to enter into an attempted intellectual discourse with one such as yourself. So I don't.
Been asked to explain what you mean by cheat is hardly intellectual discourse.
Clearly you are cornered .
I wouldn't dream of requiring intellectual discourse from you.
OVD Much? wrote:
liar soorer wrote:
Come on; what is a cheat?
For crying out loud - let it go. You are coming across like someone who walks into a school playground with a gun.
Toy gun.
Armstronglivs wrote:
liar soorer wrote:
Been asked to explain what you mean by cheat is hardly intellectual discourse.
Clearly you are cornered .
I wouldn't dream of requiring intellectual discourse from you.
You did until you were cornered and then refused to answer.
Come on; you freely use the word cheat; explain yourself.
Armstronglivs wrote:
liar soorer wrote:
Says the man who has refused to read the rules and go into hiding when asked directly about them.If you had bothered to read them then you would not have said the above.It has all been explained to you.
You make the most alarmingly tautology.
You say that the primary piece of evidence is that is the irrefutable fact that the athlete has committed violation of the anti doping rules.
I can hear a barking sound.
When there is none.
Come out of hiding and explain yourself.
Curious reply. Can you confirm you are fluent in English as a first language?
Your response to “the system is broken” is to re-explain to me “how the system works”.
If you want to argue on the merits that it is not broken, tell me the likelihood that Simon Getzmann proves his innocence, under this system, without that last painkiller to test? Recall he proved he was innocent, so that is given. How does the WADA Code protect him, if he cannot prove it came from a WADA legally prescribed WADA legal medication? Point to me all the Articles in the Code that implement all the safeguards and ensure fairness for innocent athletes like Getzmann.
In this broken system, you can violate rules without knowledge and without intent. That is explicit in the Code.
The result of a 44-page CAS report were findings of rule violations, without the prosecuting or adjudicating bodies affirmatively establishing either knowledge or intent.
You may say they didn’t have to, and my response was, and is, that’s in part why the system is broken.
We have a certain conviction on top of the uncertainties of knowledge, intent, and the source.
To pour salt on the wounds, there was no need for the CAS to deem the ADRV was “intentional”, as 10.2.1.1 only requires the athlete to show “not intentional”. The CAS only needed to say she failed, on the balance of probability, to make that showing.
Deeming it intentional seems unnecessary and gratuitous.
The Code has been crafted by lawyers to make convictions easy and cheap for ADAs and ADOs to prosecute and win, against the worst athletes, and not to ensure justice for all athletes, in cases of uncertainty. Unfortunately, this will catch more guilty and innocent athletes alike. “Yay” for catching the guilty ones, but at what price?
I fully agree.
The basis of the Code is that it sports rules are not subject to the same standards as civil and criminal cases.
I think that the original Code said that to do so would be both administratively and financially too burdensome.
They apply strict liability and no mens rea for outcomes that would never ever be subject to such in normal jurisprudence.
Non reading foul mouths, such as Armstronglivs, then go beyond the Code in making vile judgements on cases which do not rule on mens rea.
rekrunner wrote:
To pour salt on the wounds, there was no need for the CAS to deem the ADRV was “intentional”, as 10.2.1.1 only requires the athlete to show “not intentional”. The CAS only needed to say she failed, on the balance of probability, to make that showing.
Deeming it intentional seems unnecessary and gratuitous.
Unnecessary, formally yes, but realistic and placed in the final decision on purprose, for example to show how absurd her burrito excuse was (the balance of probabilities was a lot closer to 0 : 100 than to 49 : 51). I also note that CAS did not say "deem".
At least you are realizing now that the "intent" was not mentioned pursuant to 10.2.3, so no need to keep referring to 10.2.3.
casual obsever wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
To pour salt on the wounds, there was no need for the CAS to deem the ADRV was “intentional”, as 10.2.1.1 only requires the athlete to show “not intentional”. The CAS only needed to say she failed, on the balance of probability, to make that showing.
Deeming it intentional seems unnecessary and gratuitous.
Unnecessary, formally yes, but realistic and placed in the final decision on purprose, for example to show how absurd her burrito excuse was (the balance of probabilities was a lot closer to 0 : 100 than to 49 : 51). I also note that CAS did not say "deem".
At least you are realizing now that the "intent" was not mentioned pursuant to 10.2.3, so no need to keep referring to 10.2.3.
Read the comment ; within the rules; on 10.2.3 and then it will all be a breath of fresh spring air for you.
This comment has been presented many times but you refuse to deal with/ read it.
Why?
Done long time ago. Why do you keep making up stuff?
I love the quote in the heading and I always think of it during my most painful hobbyjogs/shuffles. It gives me the will to haul my flabby ass to the finish line when I'm about to give up. LOVE YOU SHELBY!
casual obsever wrote:
Done long time ago. Why do you keep making up stuff?
You make no reference to it or the arguments that follow.
So if you have read it why ignore it in entirety?
Is it because AIU say “ deemed” intentional?
On the contrary - I did refer to it directly: it is not relevant in that context. Read again what I wrote: 10.2.3 does not apply here, because, as the comment says explictly:
59 [Comment to Article 10.2.3: Article 10.2.3 provides a special definition of “intentional” which is to be applied solely for purposes of Article 10.2.]
Will you now apologize and stop lying about me?
And rekrunner understands this:
rekrunner wrote:
The CAS only needed to say she failed, on the balance of probability, to make that showing.
Deeming it intentional seems unnecessary and gratuitous.
10.2.3 did not cause CAS to conclude "intentional".
casual obsever wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
To pour salt on the wounds, there was no need for the CAS to deem the ADRV was “intentional”, as 10.2.1.1 only requires the athlete to show “not intentional”. The CAS only needed to say she failed, on the balance of probability, to make that showing.
Deeming it intentional seems unnecessary and gratuitous.
Unnecessary, formally yes, but realistic and placed in the final decision on purprose, for example to show how absurd her burrito excuse was (the balance of probabilities was a lot closer to 0 : 100 than to 49 : 51). I also note that CAS did not say "deem".
At least you are realizing now that the "intent" was not mentioned pursuant to 10.2.3, so no need to keep referring to 10.2.3.
“Realistic” and “on purprose(sic)” and “absurd” look like your own interpreted opinions.
I’m realizing what? “Intentional” as used by the CAS can only be the one defined by WADA in Article 10.2.3 and can only apply to Article 10.2.
Nothing in the CAS report justifies “intentional”, by WADA’s or any other definition, except as the likely consequence explained in the WADA code of failing to establish the source, and failing to rebut the presumption of intention.
You should add Paragraph 140 to your notes: “… the ADRV must be deemed to be intentional.”
casual obsever wrote:
Done long time ago. Why do you keep making up stuff?
When did you discuss the comment within the rules on 10.2.3.
I would have assumed that you would have made reference to this rather than silence until directly promoted.And even then not bothered to give detail.
rekrunner wrote:
“Realistic” and “on purprose(sic)” and “absurd” look like your own interpreted opinions.
Obviously, like your "unnecessary and gratuitous".
rekrunner wrote:
I’m realizing what? “Intentional” as used by the CAS can only be the one defined by WADA in Article 10.2.3 and can only apply to Article 10.2.
Hmmm, I thought you realized that CAS mentioned "intentional" in the end not because of 10.2.3, since you called it "unnecessary and gratuitous".
rekrunner wrote:
You should add Paragraph 140 to your notes: “… the ADRV must be deemed to be intentional.”
Indeed, I know, “… the ADRV must be deemed to be intentional.”; must, not may, or could, or etc. Also there is no 10.2.3. in 140.
liar soorer wrote:
When did you discuss the comment within the rules on 10.2.3.
I would have assumed that you would have made reference to this rather than silence until directly promoted.And even then not bothered to give detail.
Come again?
Your false claim was:
liar soorer wrote:
This comment has been presented many times but you refuse to deal with/ read it.
Now you want me to discuss the comment? After you falsely claimed that I neither dealt with nor read it? No apology of course, no admitting that you were wrong. This is pointless. Bye.
casual obsever wrote:
liar soorer wrote:
When did you discuss the comment within the rules on 10.2.3.
I would have assumed that you would have made reference to this rather than silence until directly promoted.And even then not bothered to give detail.
Come again?
Your false claim was:
liar soorer wrote:
This comment has been presented many times but you refuse to deal with/ read it.
Now you want me to discuss the comment? After you falsely claimed that I neither dealt with nor read it? No apology of course, no admitting that you were wrong. This is pointless. Bye.
You refuse to say when you discussed the comment within the rules.
When you can demonstrate that you have done what you claim to have done then I will delight you with a fulsome apology.
Ball in your court.
Or will you run away and hide like Armstronglivs.
Nope. You are just trying to switch goalposts. Too obvious.
Ingebrigtsen brothers release incredibly catchy Olympic music video (listen here + full lyrics)
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
Matt Fox/SweatElite harasses one of his clients after they called him out
Per sources, Colorado expected to hire NAU assistant coach Jarred Cornfield as head xc coach
Sometimes it seems like Cooper Teare is not that good BUT…