Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

carmine9 wrote:

PutinLikesButts wrote:

I assure you, causality does not break down at quantum levels. Can you clarify what you mean by definitive states (in terms of solutions to the Schrodinger equation)? What do you mean by indeterminate? As in, we can't solve the eigenvalue problem exactly for the particular system of interest or are you referring to something along the lines of "the wavefunction represents a probability distribution over the entirety of space"? What do you mean by unknowable? I know with great certainty that my refrigerator is going to be exactly where I left it when I come home from work because its wavefunction is very localized in my kitchen.

I assume this all stems from your confusion about the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which states that the uncertainty in an object's position multiplied by the uncertainty in its momentum is greater than or equal to hbar / 2. Here, hbar is the Planck constant divided by (2 * pi). hbar is on the order 10^(-34) J * s. That's a VERY small number, which is why quantum uncertainty doesn't manifest at macroscopic levels. So, quantum-level uncertainty is literally a very small amount of uncertainty.

When you're in a hole, the first thing you should do is stop digging.

Causality does not exist at the sub-atomic level.

You misstate Heisenberg.

In the field of quantum mechanics, Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is a fundamental theory that explains why it is impossible to measure more than one quantum variable simultaneously. Another implication of the uncertainty principle is that it is impossible to accurately measure the energy of a system in some finite amount of time.

It's not a "very small amount of uncertainty".

It is total uncertainty

PutinWarCriminal wrote:

carmine9 wrote:

Causality does not exist at the sub-atomic level.

You misstate Heisenberg.

In the field of quantum mechanics, Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is a fundamental theory that explains why it is impossible to measure more than one quantum variable simultaneously. Another implication of the uncertainty principle is that it is impossible to accurately measure the energy of a system in some finite amount of time.

It's not a "very small amount of uncertainty".

It is total uncertainty

I assure you, I do NOT misstate Heisenberg. I put the mathematical definition of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle in my post, well aware that an analogous definition in terms of time and energy can be formulated. Perhaps you would care to share that equation? What's the value of the right hand side? Is it a large number? Furthermore, could you elaborate on how this causes causality to break down? You can use bra and ket notation, if it helps, or second quantization, if you're more fluent in that notation.

Could you define "quantum variable" as you used it in your post? [I hope it was defined on whatever website you plagiarized]

Please elaborate on this phenomena that you call "total uncertainty".

Here's an example where causality does not break down: Feb. 24th - Russia invades Ukraine, sometime later, Russia retreats from Kyiv after being embarrassed repeatedly, sometime in the future, Russia implodes and Putin is overthrown.

carmine9 wrote:

PutinWarCriminal wrote:

I assure you, I do NOT misstate Heisenberg. I put the mathematical definition of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle in my post, well aware that an analogous definition in terms of time and energy can be formulated. Perhaps you would care to share that equation? What's the value of the right hand side? Is it a large number? Furthermore, could you elaborate on how this causes causality to break down? You can use bra and ket notation, if it helps, or second quantization, if you're more fluent in that notation.

Could you define "quantum variable" as you used it in your post? [I hope it was defined on whatever website you plagiarized]

Please elaborate on this phenomena that you call "total uncertainty".

Here's an example where causality does not break down: Feb. 24th - Russia invades Ukraine, sometime later, Russia retreats from Kyiv after being embarrassed repeatedly, sometime in the future, Russia implodes and Putin is overthrown.

In the field of quantum mechanics, Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is a fundamental theory that explains why it is impossible to measure more than one quantum variable simultaneously. Another implication of the uncertainty principle is that it is impossible to accurately measure the energy of a system in some finite amount of time.

Note the word impossible.

PutinWarCriminal wrote:

carmine9 wrote:

In the field of quantum mechanics, Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is a fundamental theory that explains why it is impossible to measure more than one quantum variable simultaneously. Another implication of the uncertainty principle is that it is impossible to accurately measure the energy of a system in some finite amount of time.

Note the word impossible.

Note the words "quantum variable". Please define.

Your post also says it is impossible to accurately measure the energy of a system in some finite amount of time. How about if we're willing to accept a time bit of inaccuracy? What if we have an infinite amount of time? How does this show that causality breaks down at the quantum level? What is "total uncertainty"? Please, use equations. We're all waiting.

Otherwise, shut up on things you know nothing about (which, at this point, seems to be pretty much everything!)

carmine9 wrote:

PutinWarCriminal wrote:

I assure you, I do NOT misstate Heisenberg. I put the mathematical definition of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle in my post, well aware that an analogous definition in terms of time and energy can be formulated. Perhaps you would care to share that equation? What's the value of the right hand side? Is it a large number? Furthermore, could you elaborate on how this causes causality to break down? You can use bra and ket notation, if it helps, or second quantization, if you're more fluent in that notation.

Could you define "quantum variable" as you used it in your post? [I hope it was defined on whatever website you plagiarized]

Please elaborate on this phenomena that you call "total uncertainty".

Here's an example where causality does not break down: Feb. 24th - Russia invades Ukraine, sometime later, Russia retreats from Kyiv after being embarrassed repeatedly, sometime in the future, Russia implodes and Putin is overthrown.

In the field of quantum mechanics, Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is a fundamental theory that explains why it is impossible to measure more than one quantum variable simultaneously. Another implication of the uncertainty principle is that it is impossible to accurately measure the energy of a system in some finite amount of time.

Note the word impossible.