George Hirsch wrote:
I am confounded by your inability to execute any rational thought wejo. Do you really think those of us who are Democrats would blame the Russians in that situation? The frustration with the Trump vis-Ã -vis Russia is not that we are actually that vulnerable to Russian skulduggery in our election process--that is just NOT the case. The exasperation is that Trump had deep financial dealings with Russian and Kazakh money launderers, and that he has openly called upon the Russians to hack into his opponents e-mail. Like it or not, Russia is currently a hostile state, and Trump's attitude toward Putin and his connections with criminals there are a dangerous precedent.
George, we're not going to get very far in having a discussion if you can't get beyond starting with an insult. Saying one can not "execute a rational thought" does not show you to be very open minded or having a discussion.
Per your argument, Hillary however did not focus on Trumps ties to money launderers. I never heard the word Kazakhs mentioned. She focused on the electoral process, "We've never had anything like this happen in any of our elections before." and this "Even if you don't know for sure whether they are, do you condemn any interference by Russia in the American election?"
That is why I specifically put those quotes in there because I realized others could have concerns just with Trumps ties to Russia financially. But Hillary specifically tied it to the election.
And finally George, I was not making a statement, but posed a question asking if Hillary posing the Russian question helps delegitimize our system, maybe I should have asked to what degree if any does it. Ultimately, I don't think Trump questioning the fairness of the system (BTW I never said these things are equivalent and I've said he should say once the votes are counted and any protests he has ruled on he will accept the results) or Hillary talking about Russian interference really delegitimizes the election unless somehow behind the scenes there is something delegitimate about our process.
People are saying what Trump did is super scary and are comparing Trump to some candidate in a country in Africa with rigged elections. The BIG, BIG difference is in some countries in Africa, a lot of elections are outright rigged. They key is to create and have a system that people can believe in. The problem in some countries in Africa is not the candidates questioning the system, it is actually that the system is rigged. Many elections are outright fraudulent. Trump can rant all he wants but as long as we ensure we have a system here that is legitimate we should be ok. I believe America is stronger than Donald Trump or any other candidate for that matter. We may go Bush-Clinton-Bush-pause-Clinton with our presidency but we also elected Barrack Obama in between. America often doesn't live up to its ideal, but the American ideal is there and the election of Barrack Obama represents it. (I say that as someone who didn't vote for President Obama. I loved what he represented to a lot of people, but concluded policy wise he was too liberal for me and the day after he was elected or inaugurated what he represented wouldn't mean much in terms of what was implemented).
Having a legitimate electoral system is key. So Trump saying it's rigged now with illegal voters, Democrats saying Republicans want to prevent minorities from voting, they may cause people to question the system, but better that than no one questioning it and most people concluding it really is rigged like in some places in the world. The argument could be made long-term we are better off with people questioning our system. The American system is designed to be stronger than anyone one candidate and I think it is.
