Do I have what it takes to run a 4:24 mile? Let's find out

i really hate trolls

TheAverageRunner, can you design a base training schedule for a 13 year old middle schooler. My son is very active and used to play premier soccer. He is also a very good runner. He placed 3rd in the districts last year without training. He is looking to run 15-20 MPW in base phase for outdoor track. His 800 PR is 2:40 and his 1600 PR is 6 minutes (these were in september without training)

Don't know if I should, but I have time, so i'll bite..

Disclaimer: I'm not a coach and the athlete and those around him will know more about him then I will

If the goal is 15-20mpw then 4 days a week I'd run about 3 miles each of those days.

one day can be a little sprint session. Maybe 6x50m hills (no less than 2 min rest, preferably 3 miniutes). Or 6-8x40m or so on the track. These are just super simple speed development workouts. There's a lot of other stuff you can do but at a young age I think it's smart to work on top speed so there's room to work with when the kid grows up into hs and college.

One day should be a tempo of sorts. He can run as slow as he wants on the other days, but have him run a bit faster for this day. Idk what his 'tempo pace' should be. After he runs more races that'll be evident. It might be easier for the tempo to be broken up into half mile repeats with 1 minute rest, to make it mentally easier and keep the quality up. 2-3 miles total is plenty for now.

2-3 times a month he can do a 'long' run. For him running 15-20mpw this can be 4-5 miles. Gradually work him up. If he's never run more than 3 miles then start with a 3.5 miler. Maybe 4 next time, then 4.25, etc etc.

A week may look like this:

Monday: 2-3 miles easy

Tuesday: Sprint work. Half mile warm up/cool down. Drills and dynamic stretches. Maybe 1.5 miles total

Wednesday: 2-3 miles easy

Thursday: 3 miles easy

Friday: Tempo. Half mile or so warm up/cool down. Maybe 4-6x800m @ lactate threshold or a 2-3 mile run @ steady state. 3-4 miles total

Saturday: Off

Sunday: Long or easy run. 2-6 miles depending on how he's feeling.

This would be anywhere from 13.5-20.5 miles a week.

Idk if he wants to train 6 days a week or 5. I would recommend 6 days for someone that age, not 5 or 7, for various reasons. If he's only running 5 days a week, one of the easy runs can be taken out and a little mileage can be added to any other day of the week. As long as he's doing a little bit of sprinting and up tempo running, there doesn't need to be a lot of structure. The long run is important in the aspect that it'll make it easier for him to up his mileage when the time comes.

This is super basic plan, given more info I could answer more questions. Feel free to ask!

Thanks so much, but i have a question. I have read on many articles that if you do speed work to early in the season, you will burnout and peak in the beginning instead of the end of the season. Or is that just intervals? Also, i think he can run a 20 minute tempo at 7-7:30 pace because, a couple weeks ago he ran a 4 miler by himself nonstop and clocked 32 min. And that wasn't even all out. He ran with my older son yesturday and did 3 miles in 24 min without at average heart rate of 120.

He will be practicing by himself or with my older son until April when his track season starts and his first meet will be in early May. And those 60m or 40m sprints should he do them once a week?

Or could he do short hill sprints (20-60m) after 2 of his easy runs

and some 80-100m striders after his 3rd easy run?

Sprint work wont burn him out. If its challenging for him, give him more rest. It shouldn't be hard. He may get a little sore, but it won't be hard like an interval workout.

Once a week is fine. I'd say shoot for 3 times a month at least. I'd dedicate one day to the hill or track sprints and then you can do strides after easy runs once or twice a week, also.

Ok thanks,

are you still going to keep this thread active, because i really enjoyed reading all the pages

I plan on it! I'll continue updating my training weekly. Training has been going well recently.

THanks!! wrote:

Ok thanks,

are you still going to keep this thread active, because i really enjoyed reading all the pages

Hello TheAverageRunner,

Should my son incorporate some hill reps in base phase? Should he do 10x 50-60m hill or 4x 400m hill, and how much rest in between should he have. Or could it be like 2 speed sessions a week during base phase, 2x4x60m on track w/ 3-4 min break between reps and 6 min between sets and on a different day, hill reps 2x5x50-60m hills w/ same rest? which one is better long hill or short hill and how much rest in base phase?

thanks

why didnt this thread go to the top? did you get the message? plz reply if you did

For base phase, the short hills are what you want. So once a week do something like 2x4x40m hills, getting to 2x5x50m hills and after about a month of that move to flat sprints at 60m, similar volume (400m-600m total). You can get away with 2.5 minute rest on the hills but there's no harm in taking more rest, and is often recommended. Longer hill workouts can be thrown in in base phase as well, but I'd save them for the last bit of base phase, before moving to track workouts. The longer hill workouts are basically just an interval session that's a little easier on the legs since you aren't running as fast. Short hills are the first step of speed development. So they both have different purposes, and can both be useful, depending on your goals and where you're at in the season.

THanks!! wrote:

Hello TheAverageRunner,

Should my son incorporate some hill reps in base phase? Should he do 10x 50-60m hill or 4x 400m hill, and how much rest in between should he have. Or could it be like 2 speed sessions a week during base phase, 2x4x60m on track w/ 3-4 min break between reps and 6 min between sets and on a different day, hill reps 2x5x50-60m hills w/ same rest? which one is better long hill or short hill and how much rest in base phase?

thanks

The D3 ECAC is loaded. It is home to the best up and coming distance runner in D3.

P. S - Hail Manziel

D3 sucks like you

PRs

400m: 49.9r

500m: 1:06.4

800m: 1:52.7

1500m: 4:08

Mile: 4:31

3000m: 9:20

5000m: 16:10 (road)

15k: 52:40 (road)

Week ending in 12/24:

Sunday 8.9 miles @ 6:45 pace. Last 3 miles 6:10 pace

Monday AM 6.8 miles at 7:12 pace. Cold run.

PM 3.2 miles @ 7:24 pace on the treadmill

Tuesday AM 2x(4x50m) Hill Sprints. 2.5' rest between reps, 4' between sets.

PM 8.3 miles @ 7:17 pace

Wednesday 4.5 miles recovery @ 7:51 pace + Lifting

Thursday AM 3.2 miles @ 7:41 pace

PM 9.9 miles @ 7:12 pace

Friday 8.2 miles @ 7:22 pace

Saturday AM 4.6 miles @ 7:41 pace

PM 9.4 miles @ 7:26 pace

Week total: 71 miles

A lot of volume for me this week. Haven't really run a 70 mile week in about a year, which is why this is primarily at an easy pace. I also started my sprint training. Currently working on acceleration via short hill sprints for the next month. Looking forward to seeing if I can't lower my 200/400m times in the spring. I'm going to do a sprint workout every 6ish days and a long run every 10-14 days. I'll slowly start incorporating some uptempo running in as I get used to 70 mile weeks. So far so good.

Goals: Build a big base until march, then PR in everything I can from 200m-5k

PRs

400m: 49.9r

500m: 1:06.4

800m: 1:52.7

1500m: 4:08

Mile: 4:31

3000m: 9:20

5000m: 16:10 (road)

15k: 52:40 (road)

Week Ending in 12/31:

Sunday AM 5.1 @ 7:09 pace

PM 8.2 @ 7:24 pace

Monday AM 2X(5x40m) Hill sprints. 2.5 minute rest and 4 minute rest

PM 3.5 miles @ 7:08 pace

Tuesday AM 3 miles @ 7:32 pace

PM 8.2 miles @ 7:24 pace

Wednesday AM 2x2 mile tempo with 90 second rest. (11:13 and 11:15)

PM 2.8 miles @ 7:26 pace + Lifting

Thursday AM 3.2 miles easy @ 7:27 pace

PM 5 miles @ 7:26 pace

Friday 9 mile progression run @ 6:17 avg. Started at low 7 pace, cut down to 6:15 pace by mile 3 and 6:00 pace by mile 7. 1 mile cooldown

Saturday Long Run 13 miles @ 7:14 pace. Last 3 miles sub 6:20. Very icy and slick

Week total: 74 miles

Felt really tired early on in the week but felt better as the week went on. The hill sprint session was tough. I did it with two running buddies so it helped me be honest about the quality. Glutes and hip flexors were very sore the next day.

The 2x2 mile tempo went better than I expected. I haven't really done anything sub 6:00 pace in weeks. The tempo was on a 1 mile out and back course and I averaged about 5 seconds a mile faster than I did in the same workout I did last year at this same time. The only difference is that I was doing a lot more speed work at this point last year and I've done almost none since december started.

Next week is going to be a planned down week because I'd rather error on the safe side and stay healthy after dealing with injury issues all last year. After the down week, it'll be right back into the mid 70's for 3 more weeks.

I ended 2016 with 2694 miles total which is about 52/week. Its not great but its higher than I thought it would be considering.

Goals: Build a big base until march, then PR in everything I can from 200m-5k

PRs

400m: 49.9r

500m: 1:06.4

800m: 1:52.7

1500m: 4:08

Mile: 4:31

3000m: 9:20

5000m: 16:10 (road)

15k: 52:40 (road)

Week ending in 1/7:

Sunday Planned Off day.

Monday 6 miles @ 6:40 pace and 7x40m hill sprints

Tuesday AM 2.8 miles @ 7:19 pace + Lifting

PM 4.8 miles @ 7:17 pace

Wednesday AM 2 miles @ 7:30 pace

PM 6 miles @ 6:25 pace

Thursday 8 mile hill fartlek. Did about 12 hills

Friday 2.7 miles @ 7:25 pace

Saturday AM 6.5 miles @ 6:11 pace

PM 2.7 miles @ 7:30 pace

Week total: 42 miles

Planned down week. Wanted to double more but as long as I ran between the 40-50 miles then I was happy. The hill sprints were on a pretty steep hill, which is why I did less this week. And the hill fartlek was only at a 7:30 pace average but I pushed the hills themselves pretty hard. Its been a really cold week here, which I guess is good on a down week. Its supposed to warm back up a bit so I'm happy about that. Going to aim to be 70+ mpw the next 3 or 4 weeks and do more steady state type runs and maybe add in some CV work and light speed work (mile pace 200's, easy stuff like that).

PRs

400m: 49.9r

500m: 1:06.4

800m: 1:52.7

1500m: 4:08

Mile: 4:31

3000m: 9:20

5000m: 16:10 (road)

15k: 52:40 (road)

Week ending in 1/14:

Sunday AM 3.3 miles @ 7:20 pace

PM 9 miles @ 7:24 pace

Monday AM 2 miles @ 7:30 pace

PM 5 miles @ 7:30 pace

Tuesday AM 3 mile warmup followed by 10 minute plyo circut and heavy bench and deadlifts

PM 6x6 second hill sprints then 5 mile cooldown

Wednesday AM 10.2 @ 7:15 pace + Strides

PM 2.6 miles @ 7:40 pace

Thursday Off

Friday AM 5 miles @ 7:24 pace

PM 2 miles @ 7:41 pace

Saturday 10 mile and 1 mile road race.

Ran 56:50 and 5:02 for the races. Was a rolling hill course. Took 2nd place in the 10 mile and first in the mile. Surprised I ran as fast as I did. My legs are trashed now.

Week total: 64 miles

Mostly easy runs this week, but I did manage to get a good day dedicated to sprinting stuff, and the 10 mile race went better than expected. I'm still recovering from the 10 miler so I'm going to just do easy runs and hopefully wednesday and thursday I can do some sprint stuff and or CV pace stuff.

PRs

400m: 49.9r

500m: 1:06.4

800m: 1:52.7

1500m: 4:08

Mile: 4:31

3000m: 9:20

5000m: 16:10 (road)

15k: 52:40 (road)

10 mile: 56:50 (road)

Week ending in 1/21:

Sunday 8.5 miles @ 7:08 pace

Monday 14x400m @ tempo pace. Averaged 87. 45' rest

Tuesday AM 4.5 miles @ 7:46 pace

PM 5.1 miles @ 7:30 pace

Wednesday AM 3 mile @ 7:45 then lifting session

PM 2x(4x60m) sprints. 3' between reps. 5' between sets. 5 mile cooldown

Thursday AM 9.1 miles @ 7:34 pace. Heavy legs

PM 5 miles @ 7:24 pace. Legs felt better but still tired

Friday 8.3 miles @ 7:40 pace

Saturday 2 mile warmup. 8x~130m @ 800 effort. 2 mile cooldown

Week total: 64 miles

Wanted to get more mile in but I didn't double as much as I wanted and I was concerned about recovering from my 10 mile race the weekend before. My quads were sore until Wednesday so I slowed down my easy runs this week to ensure I was recovered. I went to cheer on some teammates at a track meet at the Spire institute this weekend (didn't run because it was D3 only), and ran a little workout in the morning. I haven't touched anything except tempo and sprint work so running at what I think was 800 effort felt difficult. But I'm glad to start moving into harder work.

I will be racing an open allcomers meet in two weeks. I will likely just be treating the meet as a workout because the indoor track its on is pretty crappy and I don't think I'll have great competition. The weekend after that, I'm running an open meet that my old team is going to at Tiffin University, which isn't my favorite track, but we'll see if I can snag a mile PR or something there.