50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

The 30th Ave. Drill, later modified into "The Michigan." My recent mod attempt was close to your version: 1k @CV pace, 2k tempo, 2 min. jog, 500m [first 150 flat, then uphill] @ 5k pace, 1 min. jog, 2k tempo, 1k cutdown.

Nice. I think these workout ideas are good race prep. Say about three weeks out from a major competition. The stress level is high, so use should be moderated, imo.

Agreed! As I understand, the 30th Ave. Drill included a pretty stiff, long, climb on one of the five mile tempos, so it included hill work. Since the Michigan's tempos are also somewhat hilly (I've heard), I figured I'd add that factor into the mix. I believe Warhurst has additional mixed workouts like this that use hill repeats in place of one of the interval sessions.

I will say that, with the exception of the uphill, my entire workout was on grass, so far less leg trauma than its famous predecessors, which used all asphalt and tracks.

Peter Coe would do something similar, shorter, uphill + recovery + ~10 degree downhill. I believe something like this could be interjected following base, hill reps, as a transition to track training.

Greetings, fellow 50+ers! Happy Flag Day week! 🇺🇸

For me, this was a decent week in my “new normal” world. The first radiation treatments went pretty well and did not interfere with my running. I was pleased to get in 3 runs totaling 13.7 miles. The pace is still slow thanks to the wonky, but seemingly improving, right leg. And the volume has been gradually getting better. This week will be a bigger test as it will be my first with M-F radiation sessions. 🤞

Sun: off

Mon: 52’ CR; body wt ex

Tue-Wed: off

Thu: 46’ running (3); 16 oz curls

Fri: off

Sat: 57’ CR; body wt ex

A big thanks to those of you who have been sending positive vibes my way.

Best to most!

Greetings!

Olde Farte, good to know that your treatment goes on OK, good luck!

Decided to change a little bit my usual training during the running/competition season. The problem is that the next day after a workout even a 5-mile easy running does not provide enough rest for the legs. The cardiovascular system is OK, but the legs are sore, and this soreness is accumulating impacting the next workout. So, I am trying to do a 60-65 min elliptical instead of a 41-42 min easy running. And this elliptical is not just considerably longer, but it helps keep training the endurance (at least IMO) because I always include 3-4 4-5 min moderate or relatively fast segments.

So, my typical week now looks like this:
Mon: off
Tue: 8 miles running incl. a 4-mile tempo on a trail.
Wed: 1:04 elliptical training, easy/moderate
Thu: 6 miles running incl. a 5x(4:40-4:45) interval session on a trail, hard.
Fri: 1:12 elliptical training incl. 4x4 min “above moderate” by feel
Sat: 8 miles running, easy
Sun: 1:03 elliptical training incl. 3x6 min “above moderate” by feel

Happy and injury-free running to all!

I make a couple of comments and you are back to the “Best to Most.” You really are something. Don’t worry, with such treatment, and serial down voting I won’t be posting my weekly training.

Sincerely good luck on the health challenges, though. Your training, I could care less.

Igy

Having had right side hip/pelvis tighten up so much that I was struggling to walk a mile, finally back running.

Happily, nothing actually injured, but all sorts of pelvic/hip misalignment. Beginnings go back over a year, as last spring I was starting have problems after about 7 miles or so. Film of the the 2022 Hayward Classic show several anomalies, including a right lean at certain points in stride, and the right knee not coming up anywhere near the left.

Problems mostly revolved around stuck SI joint, and various kinds of pelvic rotation, among some more complicated right side problems up as far as the rib cage.

Started back in a limited fashion the week before last then had another treatment last Tuesday. Running Thursday, I finally persuaded myself to stop babying things, and got forward and more on my forefoot, and suddenly felt a lot better (2 miles in 15:16, 8:08 and 7:08).

Yesterday did 2.75 in 20:34 (7:25 average) getting gradually quicker - was going to do 3 miles, but HR was close to maximum with a lap to go, and at this point didn't have the motivation to gut out the last quarter.

Big positive is that Garmin has been telling me that Ground Contact Time balance is horrendous - 55% left/46% (presumably the left doing all the work), and in the last 600m yesterday it smoothed out to 50.x/49.x

Short, hard runs probably seem a bizarre way to get back, but I've always tended to want to get to a reasonable speed and then go longer. I also have the approval of physio (who is himself a good runner and a coach) as he feels I'm going to be more efficient at higher speeds (as indeed I was yesterday).

A lot of work to do fitness wise, but at least it seems we've started on the trail!

Another "so far, so good" consistent training week of 51 miles for me -

M- 6mi recovery - run until HR hits 140, then walk until HR 120, repeat

T- 8mi with AM 6mi very easy 11:58/mi, PM 2mi walk

W- 11mi trails 9:28/mi, with 3x150 strides at end

Th- 6mi of 400 run/400 walk

F- 5mi recovery - run until HR hits 140, then walk until HR 120, repeat

S- 6mi 9:10/mi

Su- 9mi hills 9:04/mi

Good running to all!

Orient man you might want to google youtube "huberman galpin endurance" . Galpin thoughts on eccentric damage to muscles from running lines up with my experience.

Good to here Cavorty! Yeah I feel smoother at 800 pace .... at least for the first 100 meters!

My favorite workout pace late 30s early 40s was LT .

Goal: Ran a sub 6 minute mile time trial in 12 weeks after 67 birthday.

Plan: Run 2 times per week using Galpins ideas.

Week 1 June 5-11

Monday 15x2 minutes R 1 minute

1-5 zone 1, 6-10 zone 2 and 11-15 zone 3

Friday 20 x 2 minutes R 1 minute.

same as Monday plus 5x2 minutes in zone 4 with recovery below 115 heart rate:

8 percent grade 3x40 seconds progression 6-7-8mph heart rate peaking at 160

Zones for Interval uphill runs on treadmill
zone 1 100-115 4percent grade 4-5mph
zone 2 115-130 4 percent grade 5-6mph
zone 3 130-145 6 percent grade 5-7mph
zone 4 145-160 8 percent grade 6-8mph

Onward!

good to hear. Sounds like you're taking a smart approach and adapting based on the feedback

Good week for me, particularly now that the wildfire smoke has moved on.

M 1:40 double

Tu 1:20 with 2 X 10:00 (3:00) at half-marathon effort + 1:00 x-t

W 1:00 + 1:00 x-t

Th 1:15 with strides

F 1:25 + 1:00 x-t

Sa 1:20 incl. 5 X 1000m (3:00 jog) (4:03/3:57/3:55/3:53/3:54)

Su 1:00

Sat. workout gave me the idea to challenge Jakob Ingebrigtsen -- with competition, and without doing first 3 reps, I think in a race I could put those last two back to back (7:47 for 2000m -- if I hustle for 18 more meters, I could edge him out in a 2 mile, provided i get 3-lap head start. I assume this challenge will serve as motivation for him.

Have a great week,

Dave

Am I the only one confused by this post?

Like dhaaga, I am so much better with the fire smoke leaving. Being in Upper Michigan as the Canadian fires we’re passing through tossed me for a long loop. I thought I had a virus cuz I couldn’t take deep breaths and had a cough. The dissipation cannot happen soon enuf.
Olde Farte = positive vibes

M: 7M @ 11:26 - easier easy run without the cough

T: 7M with 16 laps of curves and straights

W: 50:00 treadmill - cat had a moment, all good

Th: 7M @ 10:35 pace

F: 5.5M @ 11:15 pace

Sat: 14M - w/u; 11.5 hilly loop @ 9:26 pace, solo; c/d - good running on hills by myself.
enjoy the week

Mirror Ball, Ghost of Igloi has had a pathologically obsessive message board troll (for literally years) responding negatively to all his posts and complaining to the mods about him under multiple unregistered names. I don't believe Olde Farte is the troll, but the "Best to Most" post was one of the tag lines the troll used for awhile, and is understandably annoying to Ghost of Igloi. Such is life on a loosely moderated message board.

I first posted on Lets Run May 9, 2006. That was 17 years ago, and weeks before the Hayward Classic masters meet. I would expect to have one of the longest running, pun intended, continuously used handles on this site. In the following years the animosity directed at my posts, bizarre behavior, unhinged, mean spirited attacks, reached a peak on this thread the first week of April. I did not post one word on this thread for two months; this week I interjected a training comment, and responded to another poster. In the two months following the ridiculous April Madonna attack I read weekly, occasionally voted positively, including to the regular that signed off those weeks “All the Best.” So what happens this week, serial down voting and back to “Best to Most.” Someone sets up the atmosphere of pettiness and childishness. As for me I doubt I ever read this thread again. Best to all the normal people, to heck with the rest.

Igy

Charlie, thanks a lot. I have found a ton of video on the Net with this gentleman and enjoyed listening to him and his colleague.

Whatever happend to Burns, U.S. M55 1500/mile record holder?
Maybe he'll make a comeback in a couple years at age 70.
Crazy good mile time by Cushing-Murray. Equals a 3:57.53 mile- The new and more accurate AG calculator. 93.94%

I don't know what the all time list is for that age group in the mile, but there is one for the 1500m and that time must be equal to 4:19.28- 20 seconds less than the mile time. Not quite top 10, but about 12th all-time. Superb. Probably can run a 2:08 800m right now and maybe a 9:12 3000m.
The U.S. 3000m record M55 is 9:10.27 indoors and 9:16.62- outdoor time is certainly vulnerable. Hope he goes after it.

Greetings!

My week:
Mon – 7 miles running incl. a 5K sub-LT/LT tempo on a trail
Tue – off
Wed – elliptical trainer, 1:05, incl. 4x4min sub-LT/LT by feel
Thu - elliptical trainer, 1:03, incl. 22 min continuous sub-LT by feel
Fri – interval session on a trail. 5x4:38 on average (corresponds to the 3:48/km pace on road in “slow” Saucony Triumph 19 trainers). Hard (also due to 85F temp). Heart rate drifted from 148/102 (immediately after/ 1 min later) after the first rep and thru 154/120 after the 5th one. Current estimates of my HR max and HR@LT are 162-164 and 142-144, accordingly.
Sat - elliptical trainer, 1:03, easy
Sun – 8.5 mile (pseudo/quasi) long run on a trail.

Happy and injury-free training to all!