50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Happy Lunar new year to all! I second the best of luck Olde Farte on your medical challenges. Week 1 of my current training plan went very well. The early year goal is to get as much volume as possible and let the intensity come as I feel more fit. 53 miles for the week -

M- 8mi with AM 6mi of 400 walk/ 400 easy run, and PM 2mi walk

T- 6mi of 400 walk/ 400 easy run

W- 10mi with AM 3.5mi easy, 5k time trial 22:16, 1/2mi easy, and PM 3mi walk

Th- 6mi of 400 walk/ 400 easy run

F- 6mi with 2mi easy, 12x300 uphill run/ walk down

S- 8mi easy run trails with my son

Su- 9mi hills doing 400 walk/ 400 easy run

Good running to all!

Nice volume and time trial, old guy II. As for me, 32 Igy miles, cross training at recent high levels, still building on the running. Snow last night, but looks like a warming trend as we move into February.

Have a good week.

Igy

Hi all -
01/21: 13M total with a 15km race on a very hilly course. I run this every year to celebrate my birthday and winter. 1:24:20; 4th in age division. Fastest on this course by 1:43.
this week:
M: 9M easy on hilly out and back @ 11:15 pace
T: 6.5M with 9x:30 hill repeats in da middle
W: 10.2M @ 11:08 pace. Big, cold wind
Th: 6.6M on treadmill @ 11:00 pace
F: off
Sat: 16M on hilly course @ 11:08 pace. No oomph.
S: 30:00 treadmill - legs have forgotten how to run a straight line on the ‘mill. Needs more PT for that.
Enjoy the week

Howdy -67 yrs old..been running since 1977 and trained pretty hard. Cancer,3 knee surgeries a colectomy and 4 cortisone shots in the back… highest week I ever ran was 106 miles….ha

i feel i always have to give my age because the training feels 3 times as hard as it looks on paper.

Last week: 47.1 miles

This week: 33.2 miles….

Being a STH for an NHL team ain’t helping my training. The arena is cold. The stairs are steep and I’m right on the ice baby!!!!! But it kills my joints. Just kills em. I wake up the morning after a game and I hurt so bad that making oatmeal should be written up in my training log. Hands, feet, knees..almost locked up.

The first mile nowadays is the challenge. If I can get through the first mile, my pain gets better. In 40 some odd years, I never negative split a race. Go out hard! Hang on! Make the training meet up with the racing! Now? That first mile, my joints feel like they are gonna explode, my heart too! Then I begin to feel better. I’m watching these old YouTube videos of Memphis Wrestling back in the late 80’s early 90’s Lance Russel, Dave Brown, Corey Macklin …what memories

Great running era, fun TV

Greetings!

Just another winter week here, cross-fit oriented only.
Mon- off
Tue – 1:15 mix of elliptical (E) and treadmill (T). 6 x 4 min hard interval session (2 min easy in between).
Wed – similar to Tue, but shorter: 0:55 overall and 3 x 8 min hard (3 min easy in between).
Thu – 1:10 mix of E and T, easy.
Fri – 1:10 mix of E and T. 25 min tempo on E.
Sat – 1:05 mix of E and T. 20 min tempo on E.
Sun – A.M. 62 min skiing, easy. P.M. 55 min on E and T, easy.

Happy running/training to all!

Good Luck with the health issue Olde Farte. Like I said awhile back Taking arms against a sea of troubles aka old age. From all the stuff I have read ect the best anti aging or pro health action is exercise. But like most of us I believe we exercise because it adds to the quality of our lives.

Huge race coming up in March at WMA M90 400 battle of the titans Carr,Fee and Tanaka then M90 800 Carr vs Fee. As much as I am a fan boy of Earl I gotta go with Carr in both.

Very Nice TT OGII !

I had a very good week!

Highlight was today/monday but had planned on doing sunday . Rest / delay by one day paid off.

Feasibility ?

Figures probably about as realistic as the fed balancing the budget.

I dug up the 49 campaign goal of breaking 16 at 50 . Camp up short 16:4x 2 times but had a very good excuse of severe pf . Anyhow 4 months prior to racing and 6 months after doing a very solid base , I did a 5000 time trial, 18:22. So 3 months of speed work I went form 5:55 to 5:23 pace or 32 seconds per mile. My current base is similar to the base done at 49. My goal is 10:49 for 3000 which is 5:48 per mile pace ADDING 32 seconds 6:20 pace for 3k off base. IOW if I can't run a 3000 in 11:49 right now off base I have zero chance of 10:49 in May.

Almost all of my running is treadmill hills
The conversion I use is suspect probably a bit optimistic but close enough.

4 percent grade at 8.2mph = 9.7mph for 3k = 11:31

So this was the plan but at the last minute I realized this would be very hard to do. It would be counter productive. Instead I did 3x3 minutes at 4% 8.2mph with 2 minutes recovery.

Did this very comfortably with the last minute of each effort pegging 159hr . My hr during last May 3000 averaged 162. Even though this was close to race effort hr the effort was pretty easy of course the rest and duration play a big role but I still feel pretty good about my gradual approach of slowly increasing duration and intensity.

I would have to get to 4 percent grade at 8.8 mph say 3x4minutes with 1 minute rest to even attempt this 10:49. I have 14 weeks to slowly work my way down to this workout.

Onward

OtOh if I can't get there I will just adjust my goal(s)

Huge race coming up in March at WMA M90 400 battle of the titans Carr,Fee and Tanaka then M90 800 Carr vs Fee. As much as I am a fan boy of Earl I gotta go with Carr in both.

‐-------------------

Yes, but Fee is 94 in March, to Carr's 90y 9mo. Next year Fee will most likely set 4 & 8 records.

Decent week for me, gaining more aerobic strength. Tommorow maybe 2x300-200-100 w/90 sec recovery & 5 min between at 600m goal pace.

Still running well here. And 100% healthy. I'm off to a nice start (for me!) with the past 4 weeks at 51.5, 50.3, 52.2 & 52.6. each with a long run, strides and tempo or reps. I'm aiming to get closer to 60 mpw but I can't seem to get there quite yet. Some nights after work I just don't feel like running! I usually run most mornings but there are some mornings too that I can't get moving before work. Maybe when it gets warmer and I can get back outside.

I'd like some input from the group regarding the new 'Super Shoes' for racing. I'm kind of naive and old school and I'm confused by all the different shoes. I bought some Nike Streakfly's last year. Those were my first new flats in about 8 years. I used them for all my 5ks and the one 10K. I liked them and thought they felt good! But are they considered a Super Shoe? Now with a half marathon coming up June, I'm looking at the Vaporfly, Alphafly, Zoomfly, Next % and on and on... I've seen they improve times by 10 sec/mile or so. And which one to chose? Do they really improve times that much? What shoes do you guys race in? I'm not loyal to any brand but I seem to buy Nike 95% of time. Hell if just the shoes can improve my times 10 sec/mile then I'm in! That's over 2 minutes in a HM! And they're legal right? I don't want the technology to leave me behind!

Anyhow, that's it from here.

Have a good run,

Dave

I mostly run in NB and 2 years ago got a pair of the NB RC Elite v2s. They definitely were a little faster on the roads (2-3 sec/mi?) than my old NB racing flats. Last year I saw a research article that found that the Nike Vaporfly NEXT% 2s were the most efficient of the super shoes at that time. Nike had some colorways on sale for $175 and I got a pair. From my workout and race times, I believe that they are good for between 5-10 sec/mile over old style racing flats. I now am one hundred percent committed to using them for road racing shoes.

One look at the indoor results this past weekend points to the influence of super shoes and fast indoor facilities. My experience with the first rendition of super shoes (racing flats) was the advertised ~4% improvement in times. I also found them easier on the legs in training.

Agree completely that the best super shoe was the first iteration of the vaporfly 4%. I’d love to have that shoe again. I currently us the vaporfly next 2% and enjoy the legs lasting longer in a longer race. Saucony Endorphin Pro 3 is a good shoe but I’ve not gone further than a 10-miler in those. For my next 26.2 I plan on the vaporfly next 2%

I doubt they will give you 10 secs/mi for anything under a marathon but the times in my area have improved by roughly 1-2% at all distances since 2019 which is huge. I would go with Next% or the Alphafly which I now use for races.

IMO, it is cushioning and weight that make them fast. The carbon adds stability so the foam doesn't fall apart over the marathon distance and also improves energy return a little. The non-carbon shoes offered by Nike for races over 5k are heavier because they need to use denser foam or add other things to the shoes for stability that add a lot of weight.

My recent pre super shoes times in 2018(more fit) are minutes faster than any times I've run the last few years in carbon shoes. The shoes I made by adding at least 40mm to the bottoms of light walking shoes bought on Alibaba were ~3 ounces lighter and more cushioned but tired of the funny looks I would get and they weren't durable.

I bet you will be pleasantly surprised and satisfied if you go with the Next% or the Alphyfly.

Ran a 2:48:04 on a over distance race with some tough hills. Surprisingly, I won the 55 AG easily but only because there was another big marathon last weekend with more prize money. The weather was perfect by East Asian standards and must have been around 60F. Coldest race I've ever participated. It was much easier to hold paces and was on pace to run 2:43 at 20 miles before the big hills kicked my butt and the course merged with the 5k runners. Became a struggle to hold pace zig zagging through 1,000's of runners up two hills before dropping into the finish.

It seems like 99% percent of runners set PR's and some of my friends that I ran with a few years ago were more than 5 minutes faster than their previous bests. I want to get back in the game!!! In reality, I know though it probably will never be as important as it once was and I don't have the talent to wing it. In the end I ran much faster than I thought I would off very little training and basically no long runs other than a 14 miler I did 10 days ago.

Think I may have figured out my solution to running long into the future. Don't redline!!! Steady eddy the training and focus on being extremely fit. Most weeks I would run less than 25 miles and make up the difference walking on the treadmill at 16% incline with a weekly interval session at a 16% incline. It isn't a plan that I will set PR's but it gets me 99% of the way to being in optimal running form without nagging injuries. Funny - now I can barely get out of bed and typing is painful but it has nothing to do with running. Decided to drive my motorbike to the race which took 3 days and my neck threw in the towel 1 hour from home. At a hotel now hoping the nerve that is pinched improves and allows me to sleep in my own bed tonight.

Good result BigMango. How many miles was the motorbike drive, and what speed did you drive? Sounds like rural roads.

Rural roads and about 600k each way. I usually only use it for rides within 50k from my home and it was definitely more than I was ready to take on. Saw some beautiful countryside in rural the north east Thailand. More rice paddies and buffaloes than an average person sees in a lifetime. I'm lucky that I enjoy driving past both and staying at resorts with beautiful views that are usually less than $20.

Can't wait to get back to my tiny home and watch fish jump in the pond with my beautiful woman. She is starting to run a little again(knee issues) and will be in 60+ AG next year! Life is good.

BigMango, interesting and quite an experience. I ran my first marathon at age 21, and developed a significant blister on my left foot. My car was a manual transmission and I had to shift with my right foot. That said, I only had 200 kilometers to get back home, and the traffic was light.

I really like my Next%, there is no doubt I run faster and my legs are less stressed when I wear them. I also have the Alphafly. They are the same size, but for some reason they don't agree with my toes. In addition I have a pair of the old Asics Tokyo shoes - carbon plate but little by way of cushioning - and I also run faster in these.

I generally do not wear the Next% when training, other than a few runs before a race. My reasoning is that if the effect is to reduce stress on my legs then the training effect must also be less. So for maximum training benefit from my everyday runs I use a very ordinary pair of road trainers.

I keep a record of what can be regarded as an efficiency factor (see Joe Friel, Fit over 50 - and also I believe it is in training peaks but I do not use that). It is effectively a measure of distance per heartbeat and over a period of a couple of years or so I have seen a small but fairly consistent improvement in efficiency when I wear any of my shoes with carbon plates. Of course this is an experiment of one and therefore entirely a personal impression.

Greetings all. A couple of partial weeks of training to report.

Mon 16 40min

Tues 17 - am 35min - pm club hill session

Wed 18 - icy - no running

Thur 19 - am icy, no running - pm club track session 3x500m ave 1:45

Fri 20-Fri 27 away, no running

Sat 28 - am track session 5x200m ave 37.5s - The first 3 reps were in road shoes and the last 2 in spikes to minimise use of spikes (the 2 reps in spikes were under 36s, but there was lots of recovery between the later reps)

Sun 29 - 35min run

Building up to an indoor 800m next weekend.

Good running to all, whatever your goals. Anything is better than sitting on a couch all day. And for those with health issues, I hope things get better soon.

RacerDB,

My personal experience with so called "supershoes" is rather positive though I by nature am rather conservative and skeptical. I made measurements several times during 5x1k interval sessions in similar environmental/weather conditions, on the same course, and being in the same form (as I felt it). Supershoes (both Asics MetaSpeed and Nike VFs Next 2%) are 5 sec/km (8 sec/mile) faster than my regular "slow" trainers (Saucony Triumph 18 and 19). Improvement vs. Nike Pegs Turbo 2 is about 2-3 sec/km (3-4 sec/mile).

Regarding particular supeshoes, I prefer Asics to Nike. They fit my feet better and I feel more comfortable. Though the speed is very much the same at intervals and 5K race (did not run more in VFs).

Good luck!