600m outdoor race planned on 1/14 - I'll aim for a pedestrian 1:42 to kick off the year.
I should have 270 miles over 18 weeks by then. - post injury. Avg. just 15 miles per week, but I hope to build up to 20.
Anyone run 2:12 800 or so at my age? What type of workouts did you do? My plan is to do 1 longer run, 2 maintenance, 2 speed sessions (longer intervals and speed intervals), 1 cross training day and 1 complete recovery day per week.
About 89% on AG - new 2023 calculator - would be nationally competitive.
I'm 75 years old. Kidding, but if you use the calculator you can figure it out. I'm just interested in type of workouts you did to run 2:12 or faster after age 50.
Thanks
Welcome
I ran a 2:28 age 64 an 85 percent using the new factors. Focused on my weak area which was 400 speed got that down to sub 70. Helpful stuff was a few 800 time trials as well as 2x400 at 70 or 4x200 at 35. But I am a newbie to the 800 so take this with a grain of salt.
BTW 2:12 would be in the top group of U.S. Male 50 most of the time check out mastersrankings dot com to get a real good idea what kind of time it takes to podium at nats.
As far as the ag percent I think you might have mistaken WMA Factor for AG %. Still 85 is really good 89 at M50 800 using latest factors is more like 2:07.
One piece of advice that helped me was HOW to race/TT the 800 from a coach who trained with Joaquim Cruz. Divide into 4x200
1st 200 go out hard
2nd keep going hard
3rd Relax
4th accelerate then try not to slow down/maintain.
Male 50 800: Performance 2:12.00
Age Graded Performance 1:57.73
Age Graded % 85.71
WMA Factor 0.8919
Standard 1:40.91
Age 55- 2024
2023 will be a fun building year. Not worried about 400 time- I have speed. Will need to build strength and break 4:40 / 5 in 1500 and mile to have strength necessary to run an 800m that quickly.
Goal is sub 60 this summer and about 4:40 1500.
2024- 2:11-12 is 89 or high 89% on new AG.
I did look at last 10 seasons or so and average might be 3rd in U.S. outdoors. So yes, maybe bronze, silver at a Nationals.
since we're almost the same age, i'll chime in (i just turned 55). it's nearly impossible to know if YOU could do it, which is very different from can it be done. what are you PRs, both lifetime and/or masters? if this is a couch to 2:12 800 attempt, i'll be the first to say it's highly unlikely. also--and this is NOT to discourage you--most masters know not to try to plan years ahead. i've had good health relatively speaking, but i'm lucky to plan a couple of months ahead.
my advice: sounds like you need to train for a sub-6 mile first. when that's accomplished, then reset goals. also, if you really can run a 60 second 400 right now, then you have some wheels; but if you're extrapolating what you think you can run right now to a sub-60 in the summer, you probably don't have much experience with how 50 year old bodies work...
since we're almost the same age, i'll chime in (i just turned 55). it's nearly impossible to know if YOU could do it, which is very different from can it be done. what are you PRs, both lifetime and/or masters? if this is a couch to 2:12 800 attempt, i'll be the first to say it's highly unlikely. also--and this is NOT to discourage you--most masters know not to try to plan years ahead. i've had good health relatively speaking, but i'm lucky to plan a couple of months ahead.
my advice: sounds like you need to train for a sub-6 mile first. when that's accomplished, then reset goals. also, if you really can run a 60 second 400 right now, then you have some wheels; but if you're extrapolating what you think you can run right now to a sub-60 in the summer, you probably don't have much experience with how 50 year old bodies work...
hope this helps,
cush
Are you training for 2:12 or better? Was asking for workouts that helped achieve it at about that age if you have or are. No couch to 800 here, and things like past PRs are irrelevant for the most part. I do agree on the 50+ body comment and how it works- injuries and recovery much tougher to manage now! Earl Fee started at age 57 and didn't Nolan Shaheed start running again around age 40 after only high school competition? Here is a 60 year old with a 2:10.77 in 2021. He was running 2:08 at 50, but started running track in his 40s the article reads, but no real insight on specific training that I was hoping for. (He did sprint as a young teen).
In the meantime, I guess, I'll keep you posted. I did propose a possible 5 day 20 mile a week training schedule. If you have any feedback on that, much obliged. I'll try a one lapper by the 21st maybe if the weather is decent and that will give me an idea of what's possible by late summer. Maybe I can hit 63 now- well that would be a good goal for January. I never said I could run sub 60 now, but as a possible summer-time goal. I think the ratios point to 59-60 400 and a 5 minute mile, needed for an 800 time of around 2:12, but what do I know? I could probably average 80 for 4 laps now, but maybe I will try that officially in 6 weeks. I'll share a few workouts in January after the races. Cheers- happy new year all!
Are you training for 2:12 or better? Was asking for workouts that helped achieve it at about that age if you have or are. No couch to 800 here, and things like past PRs are irrelevant for the most part. I do agree on the 50+ body comment and how it works- injuries and recovery much tougher to manage now! Earl Fee started at age 57 and didn't Nolan Shaheed start running again around age 40 after only high school competition? Here is a 60 year old with a 2:10.77 in 2021. He was running 2:08 at 50, but started running track in his 40s the article reads, but no real insight on specific training that I was hoping for. (He did sprint as a young teen).
In the meantime, I guess, I'll keep you posted. I did propose a possible 5 day 20 mile a week training schedule. If you have any feedback on that, much obliged. I'll try a one lapper by the 21st maybe if the weather is decent and that will give me an idea of what's possible by late summer. Maybe I can hit 63 now- well that would be a good goal for January. I never said I could run sub 60 now, but as a possible summer-time goal. I think the ratios point to 59-60 400 and a 5 minute mile, needed for an 800 time of around 2:12, but what do I know? I could probably average 80 for 4 laps now, but maybe I will try that officially in 6 weeks. I'll share a few workouts in January after the races. Cheers- happy new year all!
I found my training log leading up to running 2:10.8 when I was 50 (caveat: I was seriously injured soon thereafter for the first time as a master, was on the edge for the last weeks of hard speed work, but it's hard to back off when the times are dropping every week)
Track sessions were usually with a women's group I was coaching with a number of 2:10-2:13 runners. My 1500 was 4:35, didn't run the 400, but probably was in 58.x shape. Lifetime bests from my mid-40s were 55.9/2:05.7/4:20
Mileage in the 3 months leading up went from upper 30s (33-46) tapering to low 30s (28-32); previous three months in the 45-60 range, not focused, jumped into a few meets and ran 2:14/4:35
Key sessions were:
-4 mile tempos every other week or so in early phase; 6:20s solo or 6:00 with group (finishing in 5:30)
Race pace sessions: 10x200 w/2.5 min jog across field recovery went from 32-33 first three in flats, to 31 in spikes, last in 29.
1200 time trial solo in 3:47
600 time trial solo in 1:36
Speed: 100/200/300/300/200/100 w 4 min rec. 13.8/30.1/49.0/47.1/29.0/14.0
Longest run was one 10 miles easy 7:30-ish pace early phase, others 7 or 8M every 10 days or so
recovery runs very easy 8:00-ish with easy strides and short hill charges
Lots of plyos and drills
Adjust according to fitness and goals, but these are typical of how I coach 800 per se even today. I have had a number of masters champions, 200m-marathon, both sexes, with 800 being the main focus.
Are you training for 2:12 or better? Was asking for workouts that helped achieve it at about that age if you have or are. No couch to 800 here, and things like past PRs are irrelevant for the most part. I do agree on the 50+ body comment and how it works- injuries and recovery much tougher to manage now! Earl Fee started at age 57 and didn't Nolan Shaheed start running again around age 40 after only high school competition? Here is a 60 year old with a 2:10.77 in 2021. He was running 2:08 at 50, but started running track in his 40s the article reads, but no real insight on specific training that I was hoping for. (He did sprint as a young teen).
In the meantime, I guess, I'll keep you posted. I did propose a possible 5 day 20 mile a week training schedule. If you have any feedback on that, much obliged. I'll try a one lapper by the 21st maybe if the weather is decent and that will give me an idea of what's possible by late summer. Maybe I can hit 63 now- well that would be a good goal for January. I never said I could run sub 60 now, but as a possible summer-time goal. I think the ratios point to 59-60 400 and a 5 minute mile, needed for an 800 time of around 2:12, but what do I know? I could probably average 80 for 4 laps now, but maybe I will try that officially in 6 weeks. I'll share a few workouts in January after the races. Cheers- happy new year all!
to be clear, i'm not trying to discourage you, nor am i trying to claim any expertise. the nature of the interweb is it's often hard to tell if i'm being a know-it-all a-hole, or if you're getting defensive, or even worse, obstinate, which would not serve you well in pursuing your goals.
also, let me apologize for a brain-cramp--i was thinking a 1:42 600 was slower than it is (i'm an english teacher, not math), so my sub-6 remark was way off. but i do think past PRs are very relevant, though not as relevant as current time trial/race results. if you couldn't break 5 in high school, or as a 40 year old, yet you want to do it now, there better be some serious extenuating circumstances or you're probably delusional. if you're relatively new to the sport, then it still matters what you've done recently or it's still impossible to make any predictions or give recommendations.
but i think you're right in your ratios--though there is a lot of wiggle room. i can break 5 for the mile right now (i ran 4:52 on my birthday in october), but i can't break 60 for 400m right now (i ran 62 about 3 weeks ago, coming through 200m at 29, which does tell me that with a little work, i'm hoping by late january i can run 58-59). i can probably run 2:12 right now, maybe even under 2:10. that said, i'm likely coming at this from strength (1500/5k), whereas you're likely coming at it as a speed-based runner. but--and this is the important part--your goals are riddled with what appears to be 100% speculation on current fitness, vs. my own goals which are governed by current and accurate data.
so i'll stand at least partially my original response, but give at least this specific advice: you need to turn your "maybes" into certainties before you proceed any further in setting goals or accepting advice/recommendations on workouts. spend january getting time trial/benchmark times in the 400/600 (essential), the 800 (less essential), and the 1500/1600/mile (essential). my reasoning here: hold off on your target distance until you get more information, which is why i think time trials on the short end and longer end are more important.
p.s. i think any advice you get from regular posters on this thread, even if it's contrary to mine, is still worthwhile advice (i also think passerby's above training regimen is a sound one--i'm a huge believe in the 4 mile tempo--but is still a long way off from where you appear to be now). there are literally centuries worth of combined experience to draw from, and, as the saying goes, many ways to skin a cat...
Thank you. That's what I was looking for. I like your quick stuff with longer rests. I can approach some of the times now, but I lack endurance strength. I also like your almost 10 day type training cycle you mentioned a tempo every 10 days and a longer run etc.
I can't do "lots" of plyos, but might incorporate them in once a week. You had a solid 1500 time that certainly helped your staying power over last 200m
Plenty of time for me, 2023 will be about building more 1500 type endurance.
I was looking at top M60 runners in 2021. That is still a little ways off for me. Definitely a ratio between strength and speed here.
LeBourne: Age 61: 2:11.20. No 400 time. mile 4:54.60 Haast: Age 62: 2:12.89, 400m- 59.46. 1500m 4:33.93 = 4:54 mile (mote of a true 800m runner). Pinkard- 60 2:10.77. No 400m. 1500- 4:35.28 Zavaterro: Age 61: 2:12.36 400m 57.76. No 1500/mile time 400 type runner moving up. Clarke: 2:12.01, No 400m time. 1500 4:31.49. 1500 type runner moving down.
Yah I generally work in 10-14 day cycles if I bother to plan out with a schedule.
I might add that the training and racing I did was my highest AG score (88.9) after 14 hard years of effort, during which I entered my 40s as a 1:18 half marathoner, and found the 800 by time-trial-and-error when I started racing summer track meets instead of road races where my larger size was a disadvantage in the heat and hills. During this journey I had mileage up to a lifetime high of 126 (sustained 13 weeks at 93 avg prior to a 16:36 5K PR) and raced as much as I could in-season, often in a club context. This was after a long break from my first race career where I was a poor high school talent and medium college marathoner (2:38 PR). Both of my careers, younger and masters ended competition-ending injuries but in retrospect it was all worth it and now in my 60s I am healthy and happy and able to run daily without pain and that is all I ask for now. Cheers and Happy New Year, enjoy the ride and listen to your body as it is the best coach.
I guess I’ll check in for the yearly tally. I ended the year with my biggest total miles in a few years with 1326. I retired in March and, as predicted, managed to train myself into an injury. I really gave it a go with the “Ed Whitlock” method. I very slowly increased my minutes of running and got to about 76 minutes a day before I developed problems in both hips. I tried to run through them but to no avail. Still, I managed to turn back the clock a few years in 5K times. It took me from July until October to get over the hip problems and now I’ve compromised at about 24 miles a week with 4 threshold runs a week and no long runs as well as no speed work. I will be 64 soon and I am both encouraged and amazed at the depth of quality of runners at this age. I enjoy following the thread and think it would be cool if more of those super fast guys and gals that are lurking chimed in on their training. I am very happy to be completely injury-free and my plans are what one would call “extremely long term” for the future. What was that “Survivor” show’s theme? “Outwit, outplay, outlast”. That’s the plan. Here’s wishing everyone good health and good running in 2023!
After time and health constraints before xmas, I was able to run daily. Felt very good to follow a weekly structure which was:
Mo 60 min easy
Tu 30 min jumps and drills uphill, 6x60m uphill, 2x150m uphill (just run fast)
We 60 min easy
Tu 10x200m with jog back (cut down from 40s to 38s on measured asphalt with very slight incline)
Fr 60 min easy
Sa 1.5 miles uptempo 6:50 per mile, 1.5 miles broken tempo as 300m fast, 100m jog, 6x100m with walk back (cut down from 17s to 15s (or a abit under) on measured asphalt with very slight incline).
Su 70 min easy in the hills
Hope to perform more such weeks with increasing length of tempo combined with some speed and efficiency on the other days.
Happy New Year. I will be 64 come the middle of this month. I no longer run 5:00 per mile pace; some days are 11ish and some days are 8ish. I am on PT patrol to strengthen my hips, flutes, and ankles. My goal is to regain the abilities to run on a treadmill as a normal runner would, walk down stairs without plotting out the scenario, and jump up onto a box with both feet together. I logged 2431 miles last year and plan on a bit more this year. I love to road race for the thrill I receive in anticipation, execution, and review. One thing: everyone cares that you run, are active, etc., but no one cares more about your daily pursuit than you. Well, maybe those on this thread, a wee bit. Onwards. last week:
M: 60:00 treadmill @ 11:19 pace
T: 8M @ the Bottoms - 10:40 pace out on ice patches; 9:05 pace back on plain wet
W: 8.5M on Kohl’s to Dam greenway with the Y connector @ 11:59 pace
Th: 5.5M on Don Fox loop @ 10:20 pace with a 14:40 for the 1.5M Cumberland loop
F: 10.75M Station Camp extended loop @ 10:39 pace with two massively long hills
Sat: 10.5M Dan’s Mystery Loop with too many long inclines to count @ 10:55 pace
Kept the HR @ aerobic all week, which is plan while I base build through winter, with some quick tossed in. Toss, toss, mix, mix.
My week was very good. A month ago, my wife insisted that we should go to a warm sea in the end of Dec., while I was resisting hoping for a good skiing time during the New Year holidays. But time proved that I was wrong: it was icy a week ago and now a warm weather arrived with snow melting and water everywhere thus cancelling skiing. So, travelling to Egypt yielded positive results (on the North American scale it is something like moving from Edmonton to Orlando).
Mon: 6.5 miles treadmill (preparing to run in Egypt). Progressive from easy thru moderate.
Tue: A.M. flight to Egypt. P.M. 6.5 miles real running, easy.
Wed: A.M. 7miles, incl. 8.5 km tempo on a hilly course (av. 4:17/km, or 6:58/mile, LT pace by feel). P.M. 3 miles easy
Thu: A.M. 6 miles easy. P.M. 3 miles easy
Fri: A.M. 6.5 miles incl. 6 x 1:45-1:49 uphill, hard (96-97% of HRM). P.M. 2.5 miles easy
Sat: A.M. 6 miles easy
Sun: A “non-regression test” vs the Wed run 4 days ago. Planned to copy the Wed. tempo to make sure that my feeble body can absorb this volume and intensity and produce the same time under the same effort by feel. The test was not entirely correct as I felt that I was running at above LT effort in the end of the uphill section (like 12-14K race effort), but the final result was a way better that 4 days ago (35:05 8.5 km, average 4:08/km or 6:45/mile). 7 miles incl. warm up and cool down. I assume it could be even faster if not that much wine and champagne was consumed over the New Year night party :-)
Subtotal for the week: 54 miles, incl. 20+% of fast miles
So, the conclusion is that in ideal conditions (no hard work, enough sleep, more concentration on training) I can make 50+ miles per week no problem (vs. 28 I was logging in the 2022 season on average).
I wish everybody a great beginning of the year, joyful and injury-free running!
Greetings, fellow 50+ers and Happy New Year to all. Also a belated Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanzaa to those celebrating.
Running wise it has been a subdued couple of weeks with weather, travel, medical appts, etc all contributing to a reduced running volume. On the plus side, my 16.5 miles of actual running for the week helped December finish with my second highest monthly total (65 mi) for the year. After a disastrous start to the year, the last three months have been my best by volume helping me reach a total of 565 miles for the year. That was well below my goal, but I am cautiously optimistic that I am back on track and ready for a better year in 2023. (Having said that, I have a medical procedure scheduled for Friday that may sideline me for a few days, but hopefully won’t have longer term repercussions.) Let’s get going!
Happy Holidays of whatever persuasion to all! 2022 has finished as a pretty good running year overall, although I caught more colds than usual, which cut into the consistency and volume of my training several times this past year. 1890 miles and 110,000 ft of elevation gain for the year, which was good but less than my goal. I hope to be a lot closer to 50mpw for 2023. Between Club XC on 12/10 and now I have gained 3 lbs by doing my part to make every holiday dessert in sight disappear. Time to start working that back off again.
Good health and good racing to all this coming year!
OGII... our stars aligned as I too ended the volume year at 1890 miles.
Looking back on 2022, I was injured and or lazy in the middle months with a way way less amount of quality training leading to fat slow and too much wishful thinking. I felt lucky to make the field in the Hayward 800, and podium at Senior & USATF Nats in the 800/1500. I believe 51% of this came from my experience in racing middle distance. Was kinda frustrating to see the watch read 2:22 three times and not break 5:00 in the 1500 at age 61+ and 62.
Going forward so far I have two good months of training but a long way to go to reach my goal of "Get Back Into World Class Racing Shape". So far I am building off one day of mechanical output track work, one day of track tempo variety, one day of LSD. It's beginning to work based on me 'feeling like a runner again' vs a slogger.
I have a suspicion last year mileage was my lowest in a decade or more. No particular reason; other irons in the fire. Perhaps last week’s 30 miles of walking/running in 5 days, including a 9 miler, will be a transition to a more structured new year.
inverted u-shape year for me. Aggravated hamstring injury in February and missed my spring goal race in the wake of it, then good late spring/summer/fall, then blew out my calf early/mid-December and ended with 3 weeks of cross-training, with only two abortive attempts at easy jogging, second one resulting in relapse.
I'm signed up for Boston 2023 and still hope to get there at least in shape to run (even if not race) it, but above all I hope in the new year I can run consistently.
Are you training for 2:12 or better? Was asking for workouts that helped achieve it at about that age if you have or are. No couch to 800 here, and things like past PRs are irrelevant for the most part. I do agree on the 50+ body comment and how it works- injuries and recovery much tougher to manage now! Earl Fee started at age 57 and didn't Nolan Shaheed start running again around age 40 after only high school competition? Here is a 60 year old with a 2:10.77 in 2021. He was running 2:08 at 50, but started running track in his 40s the article reads, but no real insight on specific training that I was hoping for. (He did sprint as a young teen).
In the meantime, I guess, I'll keep you posted. I did propose a possible 5 day 20 mile a week training schedule. If you have any feedback on that, much obliged. I'll try a one lapper by the 21st maybe if the weather is decent and that will give me an idea of what's possible by late summer. Maybe I can hit 63 now- well that would be a good goal for January. I never said I could run sub 60 now, but as a possible summer-time goal. I think the ratios point to 59-60 400 and a 5 minute mile, needed for an 800 time of around 2:12, but what do I know? I could probably average 80 for 4 laps now, but maybe I will try that officially in 6 weeks. I'll share a few workouts in January after the races. Cheers- happy new year all!
to be clear, i'm not trying to discourage you, nor am i trying to claim any expertise. the nature of the interweb is
but i think you're right in your ratios--though there is a lot of wiggle room. i can break 5 for the mile right now (i ran 4:52 on my birthday in october), but i can't break 60 for 400m right now (i ran 62 about 3 weeks ago, coming through 200m at 29, which does tell me that with a little work, i'm hoping by late january i can run 58-59). i can probably run 2:12 right now, maybe even under 2:10. that said, i'm likely coming at this from strength (1500/5k), whereas you're likely coming at it as a speed-based runner. but--and this is the important part--your goals are riddled with what appears to be 100% speculation on current fitness, vs. my own goals which are governed by current and accurate data.
so i'll stand at least partially my original response, but give at least this specific advice: you need to turn your "maybes" into certainties before you proceed any further in setting goals or accepting advice/recommendations on workouts. spend january getting time trial/benchmark times in the 400/600 (essential), the 800 (less essential), and the 1500/1600/mile (essential). my reasoning here: hold off on your target distance until you get more information, which is why i think time trials on the short end and longer end are more important.
p.s. i think any advice you get from regular posters on this thread, even if it's contrary to mine, is still worthwhile advice (i also think passerby's above training regimen is a sound one--i'm a huge believe in the 4 mile tempo--but is still a long way off from where you appear to be now). there are literally centuries worth of combined experience to draw from, and, as the saying goes, many ways to skin a cat...
Run something like 2:08-09 this Summer and you might be second fastest American. That's world class speed!
I have a 600m race next Saturday- will be lucky if I have 33 miles of training for first 2 weeks of January trying to build up to 20.
