Official LRC President Joseph R Biden Thread

It seems we can all agree now that Jan. 6 was a protest that went a bit awry. Let's all accept that and go from there. Let's try to bring the country together and get over the divisions that exist. We both want that.

Are you being facetious, or did you not see the video where the cops opened the doors to allow protestors in and there were people taking pictures with cops?

You're right that not everyone who entered the capital building that day were simply let in by police, but a large amount of the protestors that made it in were.

and since during BLM marches cops sometime stood by, that erases any guilt for the crimes those BLMers committed, right?

He was just out for a stroll near the capitol on January 6th. Nothing to see here.

businessinsider.com

Alabama man pleads guilty to parking truck full of guns and ammo near US Capitol on January 6

Charles R. Davis

Lonnie Leroy Coffman parked his pickup truck within walking distance of the US Capitol, stashing firearms and hundreds of rounds of ammunition inside.

Link:www.businessinsider.com/january-6-man-...

Here are the ones with firearm charges:

Here are the ones charged with sedition. (3 convicted so far)

78 arrested on weapons charges.

Assault. Another big number.

generally, I do not differ much from the establishment. Because I am factually accurate as much as I can be and the establishment story is usually the factual story.

this is an interesting topic tho....you are a troll and think you are providing real value in poking at the establishment. You care less about being truthful and more about being a sharp stick.

I think lying is bad, you don't think it matters a whole lot if what you say is true or not, if it makes someone angry or it makes you feel like a rebel.

Fair?

always astonishing to me that hundreds or thousands of people, coordinating with the White House, tried to overthrow an election by force and you guys don't care.

No, not at all. I'm not saying anyone was "erased of guilt".

I'm saying that both the January 6 protest and some the BLM protests devolved into riots. That's not to say there weren't differences: at most of the BLM riots, the rioters never broke into government buildings, but that did happen at some (e.g. Seattle); at most of the BLM riots, there was enough police to relatively control the situation, but at the January 6 riot there was not nearly enough police to control the situation; at some of the BLM riots, there was more violence and destruction; and at the January 6 riot, it was concerning the election results rather than police brutality.

To call any of those an insurrection is a bit of an exaggeration because there was no revolt. In some ways, January 6 was worse (e.g. the symbolism of rioting over election results they thought was fraudulent, and the fact that it got so out of hand only because there was a disturbing lack of police presence), but in other ways the worst BLM protests were at least as bad if not worse (e.g. death toll, property damage, and how prolonged the riots were especially in Seattle and Portland).

I do care that they got as far as they did. I wouldn't have cared much if the police was there in force and no one got as far as they did within the capital building.

People have a right to protest what they perceive to be injustice (in this case, they thought the election results were fraudulent). I will agree it got very much out of hand by how far they got inside the capital building, and certainly don't have a problem with rioters being prosecuted for their actions, but I'm not going to call it an insurrection because there was no actual revolt.

Wow. Almost 10% of the insurrectionists had weapons charges. 78 out of 823 arrested.

Almost all were arrested after January 6th. So unless the weapons showed up on video, there would be no weapons charge. You can bet that a lot more than 10% had weapons on them at the time.

Frankly, I was surprised it was close to 10%. This blows away the narrative that it was just a peaceful protest that got out of hand. Everyone knows, you don't take a weapon to a protest unless you are there to make serious trouble.

Take that with the guy who brought weapons and explosives in his truck. And the Oath Keepers had motel rooms across the Potomac stashed with weapons. This was preparation for deadly combat.

These idolators were ready to kill and be killed for their orange god.

There were around 120,000 protestors (of which between 2,000-2,500 tried to enter the capital building). If 78 people were charged for having weapons, that's not 10% of protestors, that's 0.065%. If you agree that there were more (and there may well have been), it's still probably not that different from several of the protests turned riots that we saw during 2020.

Very literally it was to overthrow an election. People went into the Capitol Building intending to harm or detain politicians so the electoral vote would not happen so Trump could stay in power.
That’s what it was, no matter what you want to call it. That’s an insurrection.

I LOVE that you used the phrase "establishment narrative"! That in itself lends you instant credibility!

Again, I think there is an important distinction to be made.

People have the right to protest what they perceive to be injustice (in this case, they thought election results were fraudulent).

I agree that had they been able to get to the politicians or prevent the electoral college from voting, it would have become an insurrection. I'll even agree that it would be fine to call those who broke into the capital building with the explicit intention of harming or detaining politicians in order to prevent the vote from occurring "would-be insurrectionists" rather than rioters. But now you're talking about intention rather than action, which is harder to prove.

No revolt took place, as far as I'm aware. No one stood up and said "We RENOUNCE OUR ALLEGIANCE TO THE UNITED STATES!" as far as I'm aware, instead it was "These election results were rigged! Biden didn't win!". No one was taken prisoner in an attempt to overthrow the government. The only death that occurred that day was a rioter who got too far into the Capital building.

It was a dark day in our history as a nation that a riot descended upon the capital building while the election process was coming to a conclusion. Those who participated in the riot should be charged. But I'm not going to call it an insurrection when no revolt took place.

Ah the old “if you rob a bank but don’t get any money then you didn’t rob a bank’ defense. That just doesn’t cut it ethically or legally or morally.

... that's obviously not what I'm saying (even if your metaphor is a bit flawed). Do you want to honestly discuss this or not?

How is it not what you said? You said they tried to insurrect but they failed so it wasn’t an insurrection. How is that not a fair description of what you wrote?

I didn't say they "tried to insurrect but failed". I said they rioted, with some wanting to detain politicians and halt the process but luckily they weren't able to get that far.

To use your metaphor, the comparable situation would be "If you are in a group of people who enter a bank, and some might have even wanted to rob the bank but don't get any further than getting to the register, is that entire group now bank robbers?"

You are arguing that because some might have taken the opportunity to try and insurrect had they been given the opportunity, that there was an insurrection.

I'm arguing that because they didn't get far enough to even attempt an insurrection, there was no insurrection. There was a riot, and while I'm completely fine with labeling those who would have tried to insurrect had they been given the opportunity as "would-be insurrectionists", I'm not going to label the event as it unfolded as being an insurrection.

Name a peaceful protest where 10% of those arrested were brought up on weapons charges. And we know a lot more than that had weapons. Almost all were arrested later where they could only be charged with weapons if it showed up on video.

A lot of these people who stormed the capitol were there to fight a battle. They wanted to kill Mike Pence and they got very close to their goal.

The idolators were ready to kill and be killed for their orange god.

Where did I ever say January 6 was a peaceful protest?? I very clearly said it was a protest that devolved into a riot.

Are you trying to challenge whether there has ever been another riot where 10% of those arrested were brought up on weapons charges?