At 72, I really don't care much about what my competition is doing, but am far more focused on whether I am hitting the level of performance I think that I should be capable of. I do care a little though about "slipping down the competitive ladder", as Cavorty so eloquently put it, to someone using a banned drug in USATF competition. I feel that USATF rules are clear and you either should avoid banned drugs or stay out of USATF sanctioned races if you use banned drugs. In SoCal there are plenty of non-USATF races to run for those people who want to use a USATF-banned drug for whatever reason. Personally, I care a lot more about looking in the mirror in the morning and being able to think I see a person with integrity and honesty than whether I finish 1st or 5th in my age group at a race.
What is dishonest about taking care of your health? This is delusional thinking. I’m clearly not threatening any of your precious AG awards , your last bit of fading glory. In fact, I never mentioned racing at all. I’m not running for trinkets or my name on a website.
you are runners …old runners given to old ways of thinking. No healthcare professional has commented. Being a good runner doesn’t make any one an expert in medicine. Nor does it make you an ethicist. funny that running hasnt changed much..you want to flagellate yourself and have everybody congratulate you for doing so. me- I just want to enjoy my running.
In your initial post you said, "I’m a competitive 55 yr old runner. I have been for 35 years. I recently ran an 18:30 5k." That does not precisely say that you are racing, but certainly gives the impression that you are. There is nothing dishonest about taking care of your health. USATF currently makes no health exceptions for certain drugs, testosterone being one of them. If you need it for your health or simply because it makes you feel better, then by all means take it, but then you cannot compete in USATF without being in violation its rules.
As for my "fading glory" that goes with the territory in masters racing. I'll continue to show up on starting lines until my health or enthusiasm for racing fades away completely.
There are some internationally recognized rules specified by WADA. And though WADA is sometimes too much politically biased towards specific persons of folks, having any set of rules is much better than having none. And let’s obey them. If any substance is considered as a PED, it’s up to a particular individual whether take it or not health wise. But if he/she does, he should do not compete at a certain level. Especially in competitions where age groups are considered separately.
Sonogno gave a good answer. Indeed, if you participate in a large event with no age group competition, nobody would care whether you are, say, the 300th with 38 min at 10K, or 200th with 37 out of 5-6 thousand overall. Enjoy and don’t mind.
Being 64 now I, of course, sometimes (periodically) take some pills. E.g. (looking at the shelf): ARTRA (Glucosamine Plus Chondroitin Sulfate Combination) for my knees, OMEGA 3 (cholesterol reduction), Prostamol (to prevent prostatitis), general vitamins (adding some more magnesium in hard conditions). AFAIK, none of the components are in the WADA list (it can be checked on the Net), so I feel OK.
P.S. for New Old Timer: starting your post with “peanut gallery” seems not a good idea.
Certainly an individual could take an "absolutist" position and declare that it is cheating to take any exogenous substance including vitamins and drugs prescribed to treat specific medical conditions. I think most of us, myself included, would consider such a position to be excessively rigid and not conducive to optimizing one's overall health. I agree with Orient: we have a set of internationally recognized rules about what is allowed and what isn't, and these are what we should follow for competitive purposes. Testosterone supplementation may be medically appropriate for some people and if so it seems entirely reasonable to use it, but yes, I think it's "cheating" to then compete in races even if they are not officially sanctioned ones. Most supplements and most drugs are not banned substances so it is not cheating to race with them.
If you're not competing, do what you think is best for your health.
At 72, I really don't care much about what my competition is doing, but am far more focused on whether I am hitting the level of performance I think that I should be capable of. I do care a little though about "slipping down the competitive ladder", as Cavorty so eloquently put it, to someone using a banned drug in USATF competition. I feel that USATF rules are clear and you either should avoid banned drugs or stay out of USATF sanctioned races if you use banned drugs. In SoCal there are plenty of non-USATF races to run for those people who want to use a USATF-banned drug for whatever reason. Personally, I care a lot more about looking in the mirror in the morning and being able to think I see a person with integrity and honesty than whether I finish 1st or 5th in my age group at a race.
What is dishonest about taking care of your health? This is delusional thinking. I’m clearly not threatening any of your precious AG awards , your last bit of fading glory. In fact, I never mentioned racing at all. I’m not running for trinkets or my name on a website.
you are runners …old runners given to old ways of thinking. No healthcare professional has commented. Being a good runner doesn’t make any one an expert in medicine. Nor does it make you an ethicist. funny that running hasnt changed much..you want to flagellate yourself and have everybody congratulate you for doing so. me- I just want to enjoy my running.
This has moved the goal-posts considerably from the original post.
The original suggested that you were competing and were troubled by the ethical dilemma that competing while on testosterone supplementation was 'cheating.'
You've now been told by numerous peers that we would consider testosterone supplementation while competing would be taking an unfair advantage ('cheating' to use another term). You basically posed the question "am I cheating" and have been told in a competitive environment 'yes.' You don't like that answer, so you've changed the proposition.
If you want to feel better and enjoy your running, fine, take what you feel you need to take. Run mass participation events if you want, but don't make yourself award eligible.
To come on a Master's Running thread, identify yourself as "competitive" than mock your fellow athlete's for their endeavors is just flat out trolling.,
In your initial post you said, "I’m a competitive 55 yr old runner. I have been for 35 years. I recently ran an 18:30 5k." That does not precisely say that you are racing, but certainly gives the impression that you are. There is nothing dishonest about taking care of your health. USATF currently makes no health exceptions for certain drugs, testosterone being one of them. If you need it for your health or simply because it makes you feel better, then by all means take it, but then you cannot compete in USATF without being in violation its rules.
As for my "fading glory" that goes with the territory in masters racing. I'll continue to show up on starting lines until my health or enthusiasm for racing fades away completely.
so much this. sorry to say new old timer, but you're being a little disingenuous when you try to come off with an "i'm just doing it for fun and good health" runner, yet describe yourself as a competitive 55 year old runner. and if you've been running for 35 years, your perspective is as "warped" as the rest of ours, so i'm calling bull$#!+ on that, too. can't speak for everyone on this thread, but my limited take is that everyone is doing what they do for largely healthy reasons, both mentally and physically, even though some of our overall objectives and motivations may be distinctly different. as igy pointed out, if you've come onto a largely anonymous message board sincerely looking for advice, and you're disappointed with the responses of a fairly experienced group of runners who are NOT trolls, that speaks more to you than us...
as i said in my initial response, you already knew the answer to your question once you asked it. you were only hoping for a contrary response to justify doing something that you knew was crossing a line--and it's up to you whether you want to not call it an ethical line, but it's clearly a usatf competitive rules line. if it helps, you can probably find some "health care professionals" in oregon that may help you blur this line, but i actually get a sense that you really don't want to cross this line, at least not for the long run (pun not intended).
if you care about further anecdotal evidence, i know a few people who've experienced competitive gains by taking T (or steroids like prednisone, or HGH, and others), oftentimes for health reasons and/or vanity, none of whom would deny the added advantage, but also none of whom were competing for medals or titles. so to echo sonogno, if you run a 17:50 5k (since you are competitive), you'd have to live with the "dodginess" of this accomplishment (since competitive people by definition are hoping to accomplish something). good luck...
that's still my story, and i'm still sticking to it,
looks like cavorty and i were composing almost identical posts at the same time ;)
back to our regularly scheduled programming of fading glory:
ran a 5k track race--something i don't like doing in general since it shows exactly how much i've faded and how distant the glory--on thursday night at my alma mater, ucla, as part of tracksmith's twilight 5k series. i mainly ran it because my wife was racing too, and the only way i was going to get a run in was by racing as well, between the workday and the 80 minute drive to LA to spectate.
the wife wanted to hit the track at least one more time before imminent knee replacements for thrashed meniscus in both knees (she's already had 3 surgeries), with a goal of 20:40/6:40 mile pace, an ambitious goal given the limits of her training because of her knees. her mission was impressively accomplished (20:38 at age 57)--i'm always amazed (and humbled) by her toughness, which on my best days i can match but never surpass, but on most days struggle to emulate. she even led most of the race (except for one runner who immediately gapped the field and won by over a minute).
my race that evening fell into the "struggle to emulate" category: after a difficult work week (2nd week of teaching) and training week (ran a 10 mile tempo with calcoast teammates saturday at sub 6:10 mile pace, then 4x150, 4x200, 4x250 igloi style-active recovery, sub-35/200 pace avg with my h.s. team on monday), i figured i'd try 80 second 400 pace until i couldn't, and hopefully manage sub-17. with legs heavy from the saturday/monday combo, leading the pack through a 10:45-ish 2 mile left me pretty disinterested in the deep sufffering that would have been required to break 17. still, i managed a 17:08 (far cry from my carlsbad 5k 16:27 in may), and overall i can view it as an excellent workout instead of a subpar race. 12 miles today at around 7 minute pace with teammates gives me a pretty good week of training leading up to the 5th avenue mile in two weeks and ultimately clubs xc in december. hope to see some of you there....
Allen1959: Great to hear from you. The grit you showed in prepping and grinding out that marathon was amazing. Post op outcomes depend a lot on the determination of the patient. You got that in spades! Get well brother! Mopac: “Tethered to an IDC” sounds like a special kind of hell. Get well soon! amKelley: Good to hear from you. I believe you’ll be joining the running crowd again.
My week: About 17 miles in a week in which I abandoned low heart rate training. My hip pain returned. I’ve been trying to run through and treat this particular thing since June but no dice. My hip problem is not complicated, I got to about 64 minutes of running and my hips didn’t like it. It’s pretty frustrating as I took it extremely slowly and built up running time in tiny increments that took months and months. That was my best attempt in years to pretend to be a long distance runner. On to plan D or H or something.
Greetings, fellow 50+ers! I hope you all are enjoying the last weekend of August. Where did the summer go?
This was a positive week for me with volume increasing to the tune of 17+ actual running miles. The knee is still an issue, but it did improve slightly this week (knock on wood). I have delayed my plan to see the ortho while I wait to see if this thing gets any better (or worse).
Regarding the ‘topic du jour’, I have made no secret here regarding my use of supplements and medicines. That’s hard to avoid when you’re in your 7th decade of life. Everything I take/use is done with the blessing of my PCP. I’m guessing CBD is a banned substance, but then I’m not going to be competing in any high level competitions anytime soon (we here are not all high level competitors, despite what some may say/believe). But don’t call me a cheater for racing in my local turkey trot. So do whatever you can to improve your quality of life, but respect the rules of any competitions you consider entering.
Sun: Couldn’t run. At least early. Did walk a mile. I’m not sure what the problem is but itll come back. I think the heat got to me. I just woke up completely wiped out. This was supposed to be long run day. At 4 am it’s usually around 85 degrees with a 70 degree dew point. The second one is around 93 with the same dew point.. just miserable and this morning just couldn’t do it…. So far ha
This week seems to be the last summer one here. The arctic invasion is coming and according to the weather forecast the max temperature will drop from 88-90F to 55-57F on Wed-Thu. “Somebody up there” will simply switch the heater off over this part of the planet on the last calendar summer day.
But while yet in the heat, I decided to have only one hard workout this week – a “broken tempo” on Sat.
Mon – off Tue, Wed, Thu – the same 6.5 miles easy (73-76% of HRM, pace 7:50-8:10) Fri – off Sat – 7 miles, “broken tempo” in the middle. 4K at 16:17, then 1:15 rest to check the HR 1 min after stop, and then 2K at 7:48. Sun – LR 9.5 miles (yes, for me it’s long) 36 miles for the week.
My main goal now is to remain injury-free. More or less satisfied with my current level of fitness and need to secure it for. Interval and tempo session results testify to the possibility to break 19/5k in late September (national masters T&F), provided the weather is good. Looking at the 2021 log I see that I was in a good shape too in early Aug. ’21, but then two injuries in a row buried all the plans and I could only recover by mid Oct. Some integral numbers for this season so far: - 21 week since I resumed running (switched from skiing in early April). - 577 miles by now (27.5 mpw on average) - 21% of fast miles (above LT)
Happy and injury-free running to all and best of luck and patience for those who are recovering!
Positive thoughts for Mrs. Cush's operations! My wife got a hip replacement in her early 50s and it was like a new life for her following a couple of years of near constant pain and barely being able to walk.
Some interesting discussion and thoughts this week on trying to stay healthy and running well as the years take their toll.
I got in 40 miles this week although I'm trying to stay at 50ish/wk through my XC racing season. I took a full rest day Tuesday, cut a mile off a couple of other days, and walked just a couple of miles with my daughter-in-law yesterday, as she continues to rehab/rebuild her strength from my 4-month old grandson beating her up pretty thoroughly on his way out into the world.
With a plan of racing almost every two weeks from last weekend until Club XC in December I'm trying to stay on a schedule of a hard training week beginning with a race followed by an easy effort week coming into the next race. Actually, it is a hard 5 days followed by an easy 9 days, consisting of Sat. race (5k-8k XC), hard Sun. long run (11mi), easy Mon., Tues., hard Wed. threshold (8mi), and then easy runs of the same distances until the next race. I like the feel of it so far, but don't know if it will be sustainable as the races pile up.
I logged 34 of my Igy miles, with 3 days of running (little bit). Started logging my workouts again. I didn’t start a low-T regimen. I suppose that counts as progress. :-)
I have been having a great season since I last posted. Yesterday, I participated in a relay and ran my 3K leg fast despite the first 1.2K being cautious so I may have cost myself a couple of seconds.
When I checked two age-grade calculators and both graded me over 100%!
Today, I ran a shorter type of long run to me at 7-flat pace on changing terrains.
I logged 34 of my Igy miles, with 3 days of running (little bit). Started logging my workouts again. I didn’t start a low-T regimen. I suppose that counts as progress. :-)
Hope Charlie is well. Miss his posts.
Have a good week.
Igy
I've been wondering where Charlie is too - last heard he was hoping to run a sub 6:00 mile this summer.
Mon - Warm up, strides - 5 miles steady, 36:06 - warm down
Tue - 3 miles slow (8:50)
Wed - Aerobic Intervals 6x1000m with 800m easy recovery
Thur - Off - Chiropractor
Fri - 4 miles, slow 8:19. Tired (often feel beat up after chiropractor, either from work or the 150 mile round trip)
Sat - Warm up - 1500m at 3000m pace (5:14), 200m walk, 400m in 86. This was interesting. I was aiming for 5:15, which I more or less hit. I didn't feel like I could have kept it going a whole lot further, but HR was only 145 at end of 1500m, which is only 88% of maximum. It was significantly higher at 1500m when I ran 11:33 in May (153) and when I ran a 2000m time trial. It was about the same 1500m into the 5k I ran in July, but that was at 6:20 per mile, whereas I was about 6:07 mile pace here.
I'm hoping the subjective feeling was just training tiredness and lack of adrenaline, and that the objective evidence (lower HR at slightly quicker pace) is the real indicator. This was also in Next 4% v spikes and on a crappy school track v Hayward Field.
Sun - 6 miles steady in 45:47 (7:39 per mile). HR only 120 average.
I have been having a great season since I last posted. Yesterday, I participated in a relay and ran my 3K leg fast despite the first 1.2K being cautious so I may have cost myself a couple of seconds.
When I checked two age-grade calculators and both graded me over 100%!
Today, I ran a shorter type of long run to me at 7-flat pace on changing terrains.
Road 3 km in 8.40ish? You need to get after the over 50 age group World records. 3000m on the track is I think around 8.37.
Just a quick update before bed. Feeling tired so I'll probably head up well before my usual 10:00 bedtime!
Still running at 100% physically healthy. Managed 51 miles last week with a 5k race. I was really dragging Thursday and Friday so I ran two very easy days. My only workout of the week were treadmill 400s on Tuesday. Felt ok doing six of the at 6:00 pace. Then tacked on six 30 sec strides at 5:30 pace.
My race Saturday went ok. I still think I can run faster! Ended up 18:29. I finished 4th but was stuck in no man's land and ran by myself, again. First mile was 6:04 with a uphill overpass. Second mile was 6:13 with another, longer uphill overpass. I finished pretty good with a 5:52 to salvage my race. At 62.27 it age grades right at 88%. Next race is Sept 10 and hopefully I'll be able to run with someone! I might just have to suck it up and get out faster and latch onto someone.
Interesting discussion about testosterone. I've never had mine tested or ever considered increasing it. I do take a vitamin pack daily in addition to eating mostly healthy. But I still feel like a tired old man most of the time...