Fan of everyone wrote:
This was a missed opportunity for Letsrun to bring clarity and fairness to an interesting issue.
Like the fairness Salazar is bringing to our sport of track and Field
Fan of everyone wrote:
This was a missed opportunity for Letsrun to bring clarity and fairness to an interesting issue.
Like the fairness Salazar is bringing to our sport of track and Field
babylon NOT wrote:
Not it's.... wrote:No, it's NOP fans running scarred that the walls have started to crumble on their beloved program.
A legal substance which Salazar is openly communicating with USADA about on the one hand and then innuendo, conjecture and general spewing from the underlings on LosersRant...I missed the crumbling walls part
USADA says that Alberto did not request permission to try this, EOT.
Clearly there are other people on here that don't share your opinion and are at least somewhat concerned about the way in which Sal went about this.
Fan of everyone wrote:
It is possible for a research paper to have a publication date that does not accurately represent when the paper was truly published. Think of it as getting your April Track & Field News in March or even late February. It is also often the case that small slices of the final paper are sometimes released or shared prior to the full, published paper. That being said, there were other scholarly articles published before 2011 on the potential performance enhancements of l-carnitine. Mixed bag by the way...
On the second point, your story on the homepage started as balanced and I was initially pleased that you took the time to write it, but then it dilapidated quickly from there. I found two things troubling. One was how you referenced an anonymous message board poster, Angry Willy, and his assertion that there is a potential link between Rupp's known and reported medical thyroid issue with l-carnitine supplementation. Whether or not this is true, a balanced reporter would have obtained a medical expert to review the published paper (and how it relates to Rupp's particular medical issue) rather than relying on Angry Willy to do the leg work for you. That part was careless.
Secondly, your time line was inconclusive. If Salazar said they used the legal supplement in 2011 and 2012 and realized it didn't work, why is it hard to believe him in 2013 when he told The Telegraph, “We don’t take that much stuff and everything that Mo takes is from UK Athletics. None of our athletes are on any sports-specific supplement other than beta alanine, which is an amino acid. Other than that, it’s iron, vitamin D and that’s it. You don’t really need anything else.”
You claim your story was valid because the London Sunday Times ran a story about it. Last time I checked, all 27 comments on the Times website (regarding the two stories) lambasted the Times for running such a nonsensical piece of rubbish. Words like "ashamed," "shocked," and "pointless" were directed at the Times for running such gossip non-story. I encourage you to read the comments section. These stories will likely turn out to be an embarrassment for the Sunday Times and they won't approach the subject with a ten foot pole again.
Lastly, Weldon, you ran a headline our your homepage accusing Salazar that he asked his athletes to lie to USADA and WADA. This was gross, negligent error on your part - simply because you failed to read the Times story correctly and were swayed by another anonymous poster on your message board. Since then, you rightly issued a correction - but you should have issued an apology to Salazar.
This was a missed opportunity for Letsrun to bring clarity and fairness to an interesting issue.
wejo wrote:Actually he ordered it a month BEFORE the paper was published. Paper is in the Feb issue. Order was in January according to Sunday Times.
Now it's possible the paper gets leaked before hand or the journal gets mailed before its official date.
Are you referencing our story on the homepage? I think it is very balanced and we gave the story some context. The Sunday Times a respectable paper in London devoted 2 stories to this. It was on the front page up top on their website. Not sure where it was in the print paper.
Don't expect an intelligent reply from brojos. They are as shameless as they are stupid.
L Carnitine was also mentioned in this blog entry a few years ago:
It's been around for years. This is a total non story. Supplementing with L-carnitine is not going to improve your performance.
It's the same old ruse as baseball players prominently displaying creatine in their lockers.
What they are using is ITTP mixed with beta cyclodextrin to make it more bioavailable.
Vitamin E causes cancer. Should we ban Vitamin E supplements?
L-Carnitine is the #1 researched supplement right now on Bodybuilding.com... all you runners are dopers trying to get some!!!!
what it is wrote:
Don't expect an intelligent reply from brojos. They are as shameless as they are stupid.
Looks like 'A Duck' is back using another handle.
Schumacher8890 wrote:
Without a story there is no interest. This is why the Brojos turn everything into a "scandal". More scandal turns into more posts, more clicks, more revenue.
Err, yes, tell us something some thing we don't know idiot.
wejo wrote:
Mo Interesting wrote:No one has yet mentioned something that is very interesting: Alberto Salazar learned about L-carnitine in very short order after the 2011 research paper was published, and he very quickly placed a very large purchase order. Someone must have brought the paper up to Salazar before it was published. It doesn't make sense that he had the time to vet the paper himself.
Actually he ordered it a month BEFORE the paper was published. Paper is in the Feb issue. Order was in January according to Sunday Times.
Now it's possible the paper gets leaked before hand or the journal gets mailed before its official date.
Tabloid wrote:
Exactly. It's a non-story.
Letsrun is the e-equivalent of a grocery store rag magazine for runners. Its certainly not a place to go for well-informed/researched news or scientific evidence, and this recent toss is a prime example of why that's the case. The only issue this thread raises for me is why the moderators/creators don't use this forum to raise the sport rather than to spread false information or purposely slant things in such a way that encourages people to tear people/organizations down. Rather than this l-carnitine non-story people should be questioning the value of this immature, uniformed, gossip-laden nature of this forum.
Are you referencing our story on the homepage? I think it is very balanced and we gave the story some context. The Sunday Times a respectable paper in London devoted 2 stories to this. It was on the front page up top on their website. Not sure where it was in the print paper.
Did you reach out to Salazar to ask his side of the story?
No one gives a crap what that douchebag has to say.
J. School wrote:
Did you reach out to Salazar to ask his side of the story?
J. School wrote:
Did you reach out to Salazar to ask his side of the story?
Nike lawyers are likely working the issue, and have everyone to keep quite. The NOP seems to think that if it isn't listed it is okay to use. WADA/USADA seems to think something doesn't have to be listed if other criteria if it provides a performance benefit. The spirit of sport implies: you should have known better.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. WADA might be forced to be more specific, and not so vague with their rules. NOP might get chastised, but don't expect the punishment to be severe.
Hasay's and Cain's parents must be patting themselves on their backs for pimping their precious little girls out to a sleazebag.
Doping NOPers wrote:
It shouldn't surprise anyone that sleazy will cut every corner. Salazar was a doper. That is a fact. Every NOPer is a doper. That is a fact. sleazy has stated that his athletes don't use ANY supplements except for Vitamin D. That is a lie, but he is a sociopathic liar. sleazy has also stated that it is impossible to be a world class runner or win an Olympic medal without doping. He firmly believes that and puts it into action every single day. All of NOPe and nike need to be banned for life. sleazy, rupp, mo, centro and radcliffe need to be in prison.
Salazar is a psychopath. You would have thought that the PED overdose death of his AW teammate Jeff Drenth would have put Salazar off the doping train, but obviously any moral center that he ever had is extinguished.
Tell the truth Alberto wrote:
babylon NOT wrote:A legal substance which Salazar is openly communicating with USADA about on the one hand and then innuendo, conjecture and general spewing from the underlings on LosersRant...I missed the crumbling walls part
USADA says that Alberto did not request permission to try this, EOT.
Sure? USADA said they didn't give anyone approval. That doesn't mean they weren't contacted.
real dealio wrote: Sure? USADA said they didn't give anyone approval. That doesn't mean they weren't contacted.
Contacted USADA. No approval from USADA. Used stuff anyways. Oops...
Online Mags wrote:
Salazar order the stuff just weeks after the paper was published online. The paper was posted online more than one month before the print version. The online version was published on Jan 4, 2011. The print version was dated Feb 15, 2011.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3060373/
thanks for the update. I'll update the article to reflect that. The Journal of Physiology website said it was published online on Feb 18 but that clearly was wrong from the NCBI link you provided.
Schumacher8890 wrote:
Without a story there is no interest. This is why the Brojos turn everything into a "scandal". More scandal turns into more posts, more clicks, more revenue.
How did we turn it into a "scandal"? We reported what happened and analyzed it. It is what it is. We explained that it is a legal supplement and looked at the WADA rles. Many people are fine with athletes taking it, many aren't even if it is legal.
Fan of everyone wrote:
I found two things troubling. One was how you referenced an anonymous message board poster, Angry Willy, and his assertion that there is a potential link between Rupp's known and reported medical thyroid issue with l-carnitine supplementation. Whether or not this is true, a balanced reporter would have obtained a medical expert to review the published paper (and how it relates to Rupp's particular medical issue) rather than relying on Angry Willy to do the leg work for you. That part was careless.
You really are searching for straws now. I made no mention to Rupp in relation to the study and don't think Angy Willy did either . I should have perhaps phrased it better. I originally wrote, "This message board poster also posts about the link between L-carnitine and thyroid production." All I was trying to do was show that there are studies linking to l-carnitine to thyroid production which is Dr. Brown's area of expertise.
I have changed it to "This message board poster also posts to a study showing a link between L-carnitine and thyroid production." Since I made no mention or Rupp I don't need to go get someone to review the study in a medical journal.
Fan of everyone wrote:
Secondly, your time line was inconclusive. If Salazar said they used the legal supplement in 2011 and 2012 and realized it didn't work, why is it hard to believe him in 2013 when he told The Telegraph, “We don’t take that much stuff and everything that Mo takes is from UK Athletics. None of our athletes are on any sports-specific supplement other than beta alanine, which is an amino acid. Other than that, it’s iron, vitamin D and that’s it. You don’t really need anything else.”
Do you really think a coach who experimented with prednisone on himself, took Prozac to compete better, experiments with injecting his assistant coach with l-carnitine, and orders thousands of dollars of a supplement right when it comes out really believes all you need is iron, vitamin D, and an amino acid? Or do you think he is looking for the next grea thing constantly. I've told Alberto on a few occasions he can't have it both ways. Just say "We have no qualms about it. We do everything within the legal limits to be the best and that includes taking supplements others may not have."
Lastly, Weldon, you ran a headline our your homepage accusing Salazar that he asked his athletes to lie to USADA and WADA. This was gross, negligent error on your part - simply because you failed to read the Times story correctly and were swayed by another anonymous poster on your message board. Since then, you rightly issued a correction - but you should have issued an apology to Salazar.
That was an error I wish we did not make. If you want to criticize us for anything criticize us for that but that has nothing to do with our story.
The analysis on the forums was wrong and I accept responsibility for us linking to it and featuring ion the homepage. The headline was up from around 11 pm to 8 am I believe and was reflecting message board analysis. Before I went to bed, I saw the homepage hadn't been updated, but the l-carnitine story was taking off. I sent out an email to our team saying, "hey there is this l-carnitine story, the people saying Alberto is telling his athletes to lie I believe have it wrong. it is a real technical matter so don't focus on that if you link to it." I figured my email would get read before anyone went to bed. Innstead they read the story and thread and focused on it and updated the homepage about the same time my email went out without reading my email. We all went to sleep and first thing I get is a phone call in the morning when they saw my email and we took down the headline. Then we wrote our story which set the record straight.
We brought clarity and fairness to the issue with our story as I had been hearing from people "hey alberto told his athletes to lie." That is what a lot of people thought when they read that story. To my knowledge no one else has put it in context for us.
I do regret the headline.