Jakob reminds me of the great Ron Clarke in one respect. Clarke was a great time-trialler but was out-kicked in championship finals by runners with a faster finish than he had. That looks like Jakob over the 1500 when he faces runners with greater core speed than he has - like Wightman and Kerr. He will likely have to run near wr pace to beat them in Paris. And no one will pace him to do that.
Comparing Jakob to Clarke!? I think Jakob is doing quite well in one of the distances (the 5000m) where Clarke competed.
So you think Kerr and Wightman have ability to run close to the WR in a championship final? And setting PR with near 3 seconds. Interesting!
Those that beat Clarke didn't run close to his wr's. And Jakob won't run close to a wr in a championship final either. He would need a pacer.
There is no need to come up with intricate excuses, it's as simple as this: fast milers race 800m / 1000m (see Wightman, Kerr, Cheruyiot, Kessler) and slow milers don't (see JI, McSweyn, Nordas, Hoare).
What a logic! And your facts are wrong (as so often) -f.ex a slow miler like Filip Ingebrigtsen has raced the 1000m, and has the Norwegian record (and has run faster than Olympic champ, and long time Olympic record holder, and fast 800m runner, 1.42,58, Vebjørn Rodal). I get your point, but you have to learn to express your self in a way that doesn’t all the time collide with reality..!
F.ex: In another post you claim that “whenever Jakob loses he claims sickness”. -Why do you express your self that way when you know it’s easy for guys like me to find examples that make you a deliberate liar here? Why do you choose words like whenever when you know this can’t be true. Don’t you see that this discredit everything else you are posing. -If you are here only for the trolling -why don’t claim something a little harder to disapprove, f.ex “far too often Jakob claims sickness when he loses”. -This would then be a claim you would be entitled to have, since every poster has his own subjective opinion. -So much better than being exposed as a little liar…
I have also dared to draw on my own experience as an elite runner
You were never an elite runner. You lost all credibility now.
He clearly was an elite runner, with those times as a master. -You must struggle to understand what context means. (Or you are too eager in your efforts to disrespect and belittle and trolling). ObjectiveObserver was clearly more elite than f.ex myself, despite me running much faster as a young adult. And the same with Jakob -although 800m isn’t my event my pb is faster than what Jakob did as a 14 years old, but his was an age record whereas mine was mediocre.
And I could go on: Is a current 3.35.5 runner better than Herbert Elliott (who ran on dirt tracks)? Am I a speedier runner than Beamish (my 800m pb is better than his)? Or is Kratochvilova’s WR nothing, since a lot of us guys have run faster? You are stuck in some weird literacy -please discover context..!
Did he call himself an elite masters runner? No. You must struggle to understand what accuracy means.
An elite youngster, an elite athlete in his prime (age) and an elite master athlete are all elite. -Some times one can specify age to avoid misunderstandings -but everybody who have followed the threads here about mid distance running (including you) know that ObjectiveObserver doesn’t pose as an elite youngster or an elite prime aged runner but an elite master athlete. -He has even told that he did soccer football as an elite, and not running (before becoming a master). You know all this since you clearly know that he didn’t run during his prime age.
ObjectiveObserver has usually called himself an elite master. But here he has a very good reason to skip “master” in the actual paragraph. Because his point here is obviously that when one has been elite in something (master or junior or common senior athlete) over time one get a common insight in how training effects the human physics, and this experience is what he wants to share. And yes, one can have an elite experience even if one hasn’t run Diamond Leagues -no way I would say that f.ex a master WR holder doesn’t know anything about training because his age makes him a little slower than the younger elite. Elite is elite..!
This post was edited 13 minutes after it was posted.
Emerging Kenyan star Brian Komen assessed Jakob as such:
“I’ve observed how he runs and I know he has the speed endurance and the lapping but his last 50m might be a challenge. I have realised he lacks the last kick,” Komen said.
Latest 1500m star on the block Brian Komen has shared how he plans to dethrone Jakob Ingebrigtsen and other 1500m pros as he eyes the Paris 2024 Olympics.
Emerging Kenyan star Brian Komen assessed Jakob as such:
“I’ve observed how he runs and I know he has the speed endurance and the lapping but his last 50m might be a challenge. I have realised he lacks the last kick,” Komen said.
Yes, I think there are a couple of things that can be true here.
a) Jakob's overall kick isn't bad — we've seen in Rabat, Worlds heats, European competition etc. that he can run a fast last 200/400, and this is strengthened when he doesn't waste energy leading or fending off surges
b) He doesn't seem to be able to lift the last 50 to a different pace — this is not unique to him as Tim Cheruiyot wasn't able to do this either, and it's not exactly shocking because when you watch Jakob he is constantly looking around the last 50. It doesn't seem like he has that extra gear, but is hopeful his top gear is enough.
So to win he needs to exhaust his competitors in the first 1450 (see El Guerrouj in Athens) or build enough of a gap that the last 50 is irrelevant (see: Diamond League Races).
This post was edited 44 seconds after it was posted.
It is quite normal to improve BOTH your endurance AND your speed by doing the right aerobic training. I have written a longer post about it on another thread.
If you are interested I can provide a link.
I have also dared to draw on my own experience as an elite runner where I on long distance training ran good times from 100m to 7.500m, including elite times in the 800m.
Well, not really. As we can clearly see that 5k, 10k and Marathon specialists have much less speed than, let's say, 800m runners.
Aerobic training does nothing for speed. Either you're fast, or you're not. And if you train specifically for speed, your speed improves.
Jakob didn´t grossly underperform?! He was 2.51 sec from his SB.
Silesia DL: Have you even watched the race? Jakob hadn´t really contact with the pacemakers for most of the time.
So you think Kerr could have run 3:27 if he had pacemakers for 1200m? But why didn´t he then run a monster time in the DL Lausanne 1500m where Jakob gave him excellent pace for the whole race?
I think Kerr could’ve run 3:27 on the day of the world championships. Because he peaked correctly. He ran 3:29.x with a 52 last lap. Obviously indicative of much better fitness.
Why didn´t Kerr then run much faster in the Budapest final? Didn´t he have quite a good pacemaker in that race too?
Jakob has been a sore loser more than once. But he has also been a good loser more than once. (Yes, more often than not -do you really want me to bother you with a lot of examples..?) -You are bias; you just cherry pick what suits your narrative. And yes, we could discuss Jakob’s speed, but when you come dragging with some super old pb’s as if they are the fact (has he even one in the 1000m?) then you lose some credibility…
There is no need to come up with intricate excuses, it's as simple as this: fast milers race 800m / 1000m (see Wightman, Kerr, Cheruyiot, Kessler) and slow milers don't (see JI, McSweyn, Nordas, Hoare).
You can´t count Jakob in the group of slow milers. Let me give some FACTS to "deal" with:
It is true than Wightman and Kerr have been running more 800meters in their careers.
Especially Jake was a great 800m runner as a junior winning junior races and doing well in senior races already as a teenager.
Jake ran the following times:
1:52.16 at age 18
1:48 at 19
1:47.13 at 21
1:45.42 at 22
Kerr was also competing a great deal in the 800m running
1:59.37 at 14
1:53.80 at 16
1:51.26 at 18
1:48 at 19
1:45.35 at 21.
So they were both great runners in their youth.
But how was Jakob doing in the 800m in his teens?
1:52.60 at 14
1:51 at 15
1:49.40 at 16
1:46.44 at 19
So even though Jakob wasn´t focusing as much on the 800m he was quite superior to your Scottish favorites. He even had the unofficial age WR at age 14 (now broken by American Brandon Miller who a real 800m runner). Jakob hasn´t given himself a chance to run a fast 800m since he was 19 but he could possibly run 1:44 now if he focussed on it (meaning he must run several races in the same season, including at least one in the high season under good conditions)
So Jakob has - by doing long distance training for 15 years - managed to be "quite good" in the 800m and in the same time world class from the 1500m to the 5000m (see the link). I know that is contrary to what you think possible.
There is no need to come up with intricate excuses, it's as simple as this: fast milers race 800m / 1000m (see Wightman, Kerr, Cheruyiot, Kessler) and slow milers don't (see JI, McSweyn, Nordas, Hoare).
You can´t count Jakob in the group of slow milers. Let me give some FACTS to "deal" with:
It is true than Wightman and Kerr have been running more 800meters in their careers.
Especially Jake was a great 800m runner as a junior winning junior races and doing well in senior races already as a teenager.
Jake ran the following times:
1:52.16 at age 18
1:48 at 19
1:47.13 at 21
1:45.42 at 22
Kerr was also competing a great deal in the 800m running
1:59.37 at 14
1:53.80 at 16
1:51.26 at 18
1:48 at 19
1:45.35 at 21.
So they were both great runners in their youth.
But how was Jakob doing in the 800m in his teens?
1:52.60 at 14
1:51 at 15
1:49.40 at 16
1:46.44 at 19
So even though Jakob wasn´t focusing as much on the 800m he was quite superior to your Scottish favorites. He even had the unofficial age WR at age 14 (now broken by American Brandon Miller who a real 800m runner). Jakob hasn´t given himself a chance to run a fast 800m since he was 19 but he could possibly run 1:44 now if he focussed on it (meaning he must run several races in the same season, including at least one in the high season under good conditions)
So Jakob has - by doing long distance training for 15 years - managed to be "quite good" in the 800m and in the same time world class from the 1500m to the 5000m (see the link). I know that is contrary to what you think possible.
Jakob isn't "quite good" over the 800. At 1:46-47 he is pedestrian and slower than any top 1500m runner has been over the shorter distance in decades. In fact, you have to go back to the mid-fifties (before Elliott) for the best 1500 runner to be slower over 800. Or maybe Keino.
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.
Yes, I think there are a couple of things that can be true here.
a) Jakob's overall kick isn't bad — we've seen in Rabat, Worlds heats, European competition etc. that he can run a fast last 200/400, and this is strengthened when he doesn't waste energy leading or fending off surges
b) He doesn't seem to be able to lift the last 50 to a different pace — this is not unique to him as Tim Cheruiyot wasn't able to do this either, and it's not exactly shocking because when you watch Jakob he is constantly looking around the last 50. It doesn't seem like he has that extra gear, but is hopeful his top gear is enough.
So to win he needs to exhaust his competitors in the first 1450 (see El Guerrouj in Athens) or build enough of a gap that the last 50 is irrelevant (see: Diamond League Races).
Al of that suggests Jakob will have to run at wr pace or near it to fend off the faster finishers, and he will only do that if someone takes on the role of pacemaker. Can't see it happening.
Jakob isn't "quite good" over the 800. At 1:46-47 he is pedestrian and slower than any top 1500m runner has been over the shorter distance in decades. In fact, you have to go back to the mid-fifties (before Elliott) for slower. Or maybe Keino.
YouTube video of Jake's final Flagstaff workout (last weekend) just dropped. He repeats that psychologically he struggles with the mile as he is a pure 800/1500 guy.
Jake completes his last workout in Flagstaff, Arizona where he has been training at 7,000ft for the past 5 weeks. Jake races in Eugene, Oregon Saturday, May ...
He also says (relevant to Jakob's workout that was posted the other day) there is a big difference between what is comfortable at sea level compared to altitude. "It sucks."
Jakob isn't "quite good" over the 800. At 1:46-47 he is pedestrian and slower than any top 1500m runner has been over the shorter distance in decades. In fact, you have to go back to the mid-fifties (before Elliott) for slower. Or maybe Keino.
Wrong list. I am not referring to the bunch trailing Jakob but those who could be described as the best over the 1500/mile in their respective eras. From Elliott to Ingebrigtsen the only runner who was arguably the best at their peak over the 1500 with a slower 800m time would have been Keino. Everyone else - Snell, Ryun, Vasala, Bayi, Walker, Ovett, Coe, Cram, Aouita, Morcelli, and El G - was faster over the 800. El G ran the last 800 in the 1500 at Athens in the same time as Ingebrigtsen has run for only two laps. Jakob is one of the slowest at the 800 amongst that champions lineup in 60 years.
1:44 is barely elite: over THREE SECONDS off the WR in the 800.
Meanwhile, Jakob is within TWO seconds of the WR in the 1500.
Wightman is not on the same level as Jakob.
1:44 is elite speed for a 1500m runner. If Jake trained only for 800m this season, I'm sure he would medal with 1:43 mid in Paris.
Also, I suspect that Kerr and Jake (and maybe Nuguse) could dip under 3:29 in Paris and Jakob would have to run 3:27-3:28 in order to win. A tough task for someone who delt with an achilles injury this year.
Well no_deal, how do you judge Jakob´s come back from achilles injury? Do you agree with me that he could be a sub 3:27 runner before Paris?
He ran by far the fastests season opener ever. Almost 4 sec faster than in his record braking 2023 season.
Wrong list. I am not referring to the bunch trailing Jakob but those who could be described as the best over the 1500/mile in their respective eras. From Elliott to Ingebrigtsen the only runner who was arguably the best at their peak over the 1500 with a slower 800m time would have been Keino. Everyone else - Snell, Ryun, Vasala, Bayi, Walker, Ovett, Coe, Cram, Aouita, Morcelli, and El G - was faster over the 800. El G ran the last 800 in the 1500 at Athens in the same time as Ingebrigtsen has run for only two laps. Jakob is one of the slowest at the 800 amongst that champions lineup in 60 years.
If you weren't so ignorant, you would know that most of those guys were never in a race with Jakob. Please proceed with your ignorant posts.
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