Then you'll never understand what fast really is. And that's OK we can't all be great or fast.
The coach himself was a rather mediocre athlete in his day, I suppose because he didn't have a coach, like his future self, to tell him how not fast all his PRs were. Maybe somebody can put his PRs in list on a tshirt with "Aren't Fast," maybe he could improve himself yet.
Coaches have only so much impact on frosh xc runners, especially in September. Often they start running in August. It's much more telling what level they are as juniors and seniors as they have several years of the coach's system in. The system is still rolling, though. Here are their top results from the three Marmonte races linked above.
Six guys sub 15:50 including three sub 15, a sub 15 junior, three other low 16 juniors, three low 16 frosh, and four other frosh-soph in the 17s. They are likely to step down considerably next year but then again many of those juniors may be sub-15 or low 15 next year by November, and the three frosh will likely be sub-15 by then. When you see this kind of phenomenon in person, you realize that where there is a good culture of setting high goals and doing what it takes as a team, nearly everyone rises to the level over time.
Event 6 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Varsity ========================================================================== Name Year School Finals H# Points ========================================================================== Results - Men
1 Young, Lex 12 Newbury Park 14:48.40
2 Young, Leo 12 Newbury Park 14:48.42
3 Doshi, Dev 11 Newbury Park 14:59.68
4 Sahlman, Aaron 12 Newbury Park 15:14.75
5 Seymour, Brayden 12 Newbury Park 15:20.42
6 Barber, KC 12 Westlake 15:39.17
7 Cantu, Aaron 12 Newbury Park 15:49.66
Event 2 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Junior Varsity ======================================================================= Name Year School Finals Points ======================================================================= Results - Men
1 Schohn, Nathaniel 11 Newbury Park 16:07.90
2 Sloan, Jonah 11 Newbury Park 16:19.76
3 Shetty, Arnav 11 Newbury Park 16:24.33
4 Porter, Nathan 11 Newbury Park 17:02.33
5 McGrath, Abreham 11 Agoura 17:22.19
6 Rangel, Victor 11 Agoura 17:29.75
7 Martel, Sidney 11 Agoura 17:33.57
8 Dean, Nicholas 11 Thousand Oaks 17:40.78
9 Francis, Benjamin 11 Westlake 18:14.45
10 Robert, Hayden 11 Westlake 18:17.27
11 Warner, Jacob 12 Thousand Oaks 18:29.50
12 Middlebrook, Ryder 10 Newbury Park 18:33.33
13 Keene, Carson 11 Newbury Park 18:39.80
14 Kurtz, Jackson 11 Newbury Park 18:59.08
Event 4 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Frosh Soph ======================================================================= Name Year School Finals Points ======================================================================= Results - Men
Actually why didn’t Guevara run in this race? I thought all transfers are allowed to run JV.
If he does end up making the top 7 though, it will remind me much of Loudoun Valley when they got 2 new transfers in 2017, and 2 in 2018 make their top 7.
If someone beats Guevara for the 7th spot that would be nice. It will make next year’s team really strong.
I don’t know about “really strong”.
they are running “well” and are all pretty equivalent is seems
SB
Schohn 16:07.9
Shetty 16:07.9
Bernardino 16:10
Dickran 16:18
J Sloan 16:19 (PB 16:01)
N Sloan 16:25
Porter 17:02 (PB 16:16)
However, remember that Cantu who was not NP varsity until this year, was running 15:29 for 5k last year.
None of these guys have cracked 16 for 3 miles (yet). Six of the seven will have to be varsity next year to support Doshi (maybe only 5 of them since Guevara has a 15:52 three mile PB).
Coaches have only so much impact on frosh xc runners, especially in September. Often they start running in August. It's much more telling what level they are as juniors and seniors as they have several years of the coach's system in. The system is still rolling, though. Here are their top results from the three Marmonte races linked above.
Six guys sub 15:50 including three sub 15, a sub 15 junior, three other low 16 juniors, three low 16 frosh, and four other frosh-soph in the 17s. They are likely to step down considerably next year but then again many of those juniors may be sub-15 or low 15 next year by November, and the three frosh will likely be sub-15 by then. When you see this kind of phenomenon in person, you realize that where there is a good culture of setting high goals and doing what it takes as a team, nearly everyone rises to the level over time.
Event 6 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Varsity ========================================================================== Name Year School Finals H# Points ========================================================================== Results - Men
1 Young, Lex 12 Newbury Park 14:48.40
2 Young, Leo 12 Newbury Park 14:48.42
3 Doshi, Dev 11 Newbury Park 14:59.68
4 Sahlman, Aaron 12 Newbury Park 15:14.75
5 Seymour, Brayden 12 Newbury Park 15:20.42
6 Barber, KC 12 Westlake 15:39.17
7 Cantu, Aaron 12 Newbury Park 15:49.66
Event 2 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Junior Varsity ======================================================================= Name Year School Finals Points ======================================================================= Results - Men
1 Schohn, Nathaniel 11 Newbury Park 16:07.90
2 Sloan, Jonah 11 Newbury Park 16:19.76
3 Shetty, Arnav 11 Newbury Park 16:24.33
4 Porter, Nathan 11 Newbury Park 17:02.33
5 McGrath, Abreham 11 Agoura 17:22.19
6 Rangel, Victor 11 Agoura 17:29.75
7 Martel, Sidney 11 Agoura 17:33.57
8 Dean, Nicholas 11 Thousand Oaks 17:40.78
9 Francis, Benjamin 11 Westlake 18:14.45
10 Robert, Hayden 11 Westlake 18:17.27
11 Warner, Jacob 12 Thousand Oaks 18:29.50
12 Middlebrook, Ryder 10 Newbury Park 18:33.33
13 Keene, Carson 11 Newbury Park 18:39.80
14 Kurtz, Jackson 11 Newbury Park 18:59.08
Event 4 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Frosh Soph ======================================================================= Name Year School Finals Points ======================================================================= Results - Men
1 Dickran, Micah 9 Newbury Park 16:18.44
2 Sloan, Noah 9 Newbury Park 16:25.59
3 Bernardino, Gabe 9 Newbury Park 16:28.48
4 Watson, Jack 10 Newbury Park 17:13.19
5 Shearer, Ethan 9 Newbury Park 17:37.88
6 Kanner, Tristan 10 Newbury Park 17:55.17
7 Ingersoll, Noah 10 Newbury Park 17:55.20
It's telling when you compare this meet with last year, remembering of course that some, like the Youngs, are just tempoing it. The Youngs ran 23 seconds slower but are in much better shape according to Brosnan. Doshi improved 25 seconds; Shetty 1:07; Jonah Sloan 9 seconds; Noah Ingersoll 1:03; Keene 41 seconds; Kanner 1:57. So, that is a lot of improvement. Seymour is a huge addition. Assuming that Sahlman gets back to last year's level, they should have three sub-14 guys this year and two more well under 15. Next year will require development to get five under 15, but I think they'll do it. The top end won't be as high, though.
Some of the back end athletes from last year didn't have results this year. They were a lot deeper this year, except for varsity. Last year's varsity, only one of whom graduated, had four at 14:25 or better, and a 14:43 who didn't compete this year. Last year there were only two 16 something frosh-soph and only two 17 something frosh-soph, vs. 7 16-17 guys this year.
2021 Event 2 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Junior Varsity
1 Blunt, Zaki 12 Newbury Park 15:23.80
10 Ingersoll, Noah 9 Newbury Park 18:58.28
13 Keene, Carson 10 Newbury Park 19:22.62
18 Kanner, Tristan 9 Newbury Park 19:52.65 18
20 Truong, Nathan 11 Newbury Park 20:07.97 37 Stillman, Josiah 9 Newbury Park 23:10.95
4 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Frosh/Soph
1 Sloan, Jonah 10 Newbury Park 16:28.32
2 Porter, Nathan 10 Newbury Park 16:30.44 5 Shetty, Arnav 10 Newbury Park 17:31.42 6 Watson, Jack 9 Newbury Park 17:32.66 6 10 Kurtz, Jackson 10 Newbury Park 18:13.37
Porter ran a 9:52 last winter and a 4:26 last spring and a 16:16 last XC season.
he must be coming off a sickness or injury
He actually has better track credentials than Guevara. Maybe a switch to the np program will help Guevara run much faster?
And yes, 3 more guys will be needed to support doshi and Guevara. Maybe some new transfers will be coming in. Np has had a history of senior transfers come in and score for them to fill in the missing pieces to complete the team
Coaches have only so much impact on frosh xc runners, especially in September. Often they start running in August. It's much more telling what level they are as juniors and seniors as they have several years of the coach's system in. The system is still rolling, though. Here are their top results from the three Marmonte races linked above.
Six guys sub 15:50 including three sub 15, a sub 15 junior, three other low 16 juniors, three low 16 frosh, and four other frosh-soph in the 17s. They are likely to step down considerably next year but then again many of those juniors may be sub-15 or low 15 next year by November, and the three frosh will likely be sub-15 by then. When you see this kind of phenomenon in person, you realize that where there is a good culture of setting high goals and doing what it takes as a team, nearly everyone rises to the level over time.
Event 6 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Varsity ========================================================================== Name Year School Finals H# Points ========================================================================== Results - Men
1 Young, Lex 12 Newbury Park 14:48.40
2 Young, Leo 12 Newbury Park 14:48.42
3 Doshi, Dev 11 Newbury Park 14:59.68
4 Sahlman, Aaron 12 Newbury Park 15:14.75
5 Seymour, Brayden 12 Newbury Park 15:20.42
6 Barber, KC 12 Westlake 15:39.17
7 Cantu, Aaron 12 Newbury Park 15:49.66
Event 2 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Junior Varsity ======================================================================= Name Year School Finals Points ======================================================================= Results - Men
1 Schohn, Nathaniel 11 Newbury Park 16:07.90
2 Sloan, Jonah 11 Newbury Park 16:19.76
3 Shetty, Arnav 11 Newbury Park 16:24.33
4 Porter, Nathan 11 Newbury Park 17:02.33
5 McGrath, Abreham 11 Agoura 17:22.19
6 Rangel, Victor 11 Agoura 17:29.75
7 Martel, Sidney 11 Agoura 17:33.57
8 Dean, Nicholas 11 Thousand Oaks 17:40.78
9 Francis, Benjamin 11 Westlake 18:14.45
10 Robert, Hayden 11 Westlake 18:17.27
11 Warner, Jacob 12 Thousand Oaks 18:29.50
12 Middlebrook, Ryder 10 Newbury Park 18:33.33
13 Keene, Carson 11 Newbury Park 18:39.80
14 Kurtz, Jackson 11 Newbury Park 18:59.08
Event 4 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Frosh Soph ======================================================================= Name Year School Finals Points ======================================================================= Results - Men
1 Dickran, Micah 9 Newbury Park 16:18.44
2 Sloan, Noah 9 Newbury Park 16:25.59
3 Bernardino, Gabe 9 Newbury Park 16:28.48
4 Watson, Jack 10 Newbury Park 17:13.19
5 Shearer, Ethan 9 Newbury Park 17:37.88
6 Kanner, Tristan 10 Newbury Park 17:55.17
7 Ingersoll, Noah 10 Newbury Park 17:55.20
It's telling when you compare this meet with last year, remembering of course that some, like the Youngs, are just tempoing it. The Youngs ran 23 seconds slower but are in much better shape according to Brosnan. Doshi improved 25 seconds; Shetty 1:07; Jonah Sloan 9 seconds; Noah Ingersoll 1:03; Keene 41 seconds; Kanner 1:57. So, that is a lot of improvement. Seymour is a huge addition. Assuming that Sahlman gets back to last year's level, they should have three sub-14 guys this year and two more well under 15. Next year will require development to get five under 15, but I think they'll do it. The top end won't be as high, though.
Some of the back end athletes from last year didn't have results this year. They were a lot deeper this year, except for varsity. Last year's varsity, only one of whom graduated, had four at 14:25 or better, and a 14:43 who didn't compete this year. Last year there were only two 16 something frosh-soph and only two 17 something frosh-soph, vs. 7 16-17 guys this year.
2021 Event 2 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Junior Varsity
1 Blunt, Zaki 12 Newbury Park 15:23.80
10 Ingersoll, Noah 9 Newbury Park 18:58.28
13 Keene, Carson 10 Newbury Park 19:22.62
18 Kanner, Tristan 9 Newbury Park 19:52.65 18
20 Truong, Nathan 11 Newbury Park 20:07.97 37 Stillman, Josiah 9 Newbury Park 23:10.95
4 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Frosh/Soph
1 Sloan, Jonah 10 Newbury Park 16:28.32
2 Porter, Nathan 10 Newbury Park 16:30.44 5 Shetty, Arnav 10 Newbury Park 17:31.42 6 Watson, Jack 9 Newbury Park 17:32.66 6 10 Kurtz, Jackson 10 Newbury Park 18:13.37
6 Boys 3 Mile Run CC Varsity
1 Young, Lex 11 Newbury Park 14:25.53
2 Young, Leo 11 Newbury Park 14:25.54
3 Sahlman, Aaron 11 Newbury Park 14:25.55
4 Sahlman, Colin 12 Newbury Park 14:25.55
5 Martinez, Hector 11 Newbury Park 14:43.68
6 Godsey, Ethan 12 Agoura 14:50.47
7 Doshi, Dev 10 Newbury Park 15:24.67 7
You also need to take into consideration that the temperature is probably 15-20 degrees F hotter than last year's race due to the heat wave. That could impact a lot of the times here.
To answer the title of this thread, I have a feeling that it is getting to a point where the coach plays a big part of this. Here is what shows this: This year’s freshman class came to the team with very similar (maybe even better?) credentials. Dickran ran a 4:41 in the 1600 and the younger Sloan ran a 10:11 in the 3200. I’d say Dickran/Sloan came to NP park with similar credentials to Lex and Leo young. Now that Sean left, here is what the freshmen ran in the second meet. I’m not going to post Woodbridge results because rumor has it this course was less than 3 miles this year. At marmothe league 1 2019: Lex- 15:44. 8th grade track: 4:45 / 10:09 Leo - 15:56. 8th grade track: 4:55 / 10:37 Aaron S - 16:09. 8th grade track: 4:46 / 10:44 Aaron C - 16:38. 8th grade track: 4:27 1500 / 9:48 3000
marmothe league 2 2022: Dickran - 16:18. 8th grade track: 4:41 / 10:37 N Sloan - 16:25. 8th grade track: 4:48 / 10:11 Bernardino - 16:28. 8th grade track: 4:56 / 10:37 The 8th grade track times were the 1600 / 3200 times unless otherwise noted Seems that even though this year’s freshmen came in with similar credentials to the class 2023, this freshman class seems a little behind.
no other NP freshman boy this year broke 17 in 3 miles
To answer the title of this thread, I have a feeling that it is getting to a point where the coach plays a big part of this. Here is what shows this: This year’s freshman class came to the team with very similar (maybe even better?) credentials. Dickran ran a 4:41 in the 1600 and the younger Sloan ran a 10:11 in the 3200. I’d say Dickran/Sloan came to NP park with similar credentials to Lex and Leo young. Now that Sean left, here is what the freshmen ran in the second meet. I’m not going to post Woodbridge results because rumor has it this course was less than 3 miles this year. At marmothe league 1 2019: Lex- 15:44. 8th grade track: 4:45 / 10:09 Leo - 15:56. 8th grade track: 4:55 / 10:37 Aaron S - 16:09. 8th grade track: 4:46 / 10:44 Aaron C - 16:38. 8th grade track: 4:27 1500 / 9:48 3000
marmothe league 2 2022: Dickran - 16:18. 8th grade track: 4:41 / 10:37 N Sloan - 16:25. 8th grade track: 4:48 / 10:11 Bernardino - 16:28. 8th grade track: 4:56 / 10:37 The 8th grade track times were the 1600 / 3200 times unless otherwise noted Seems that even though this year’s freshmen came in with similar credentials to the class 2023, this freshman class seems a little behind.
no other NP freshman boy this year broke 17 in 3 miles
A couple factors that aren't necessarily obvious.
Brosnan is still coaching the team (through his wife).
The current freshman (Sloan and Dickran specifically) have been coached by Brosnan the past couple years while they were in middle school. They are much more advanced, training wise, than the Youngs and Sahlmans who played other sports and were not nearly as serious in middle school.
The Youngs and Sahlmans are complete outliers. Aschbrenner, Appleford and Goldstein were excellent youth runners, but were also brought to another level in high school by training with outliers on a daily basis. They would have been very good high school runners, but probably benefited greatly from the competition in practice every day. This year's freshman class will not have that level of competition through their 4 years, so they'll be solid, but probably not quite at the level of those who preceded them.
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