Enough already! It’s not the shoes! Maybe drugs, but not shoes!

musclessfitness wrote:

You're wrong about the London Marathon. Kipchoge was just jogging behind the few pacers they hired to pace everybody. He could've run much faster, but he was saving himself for a great performance in September or October.

You're wrong about the shoes. So many national and world records have been smashed since the induction of the carbon plates. It's not just Kipchoge who benefited from it, just do some research on google.

Idiot

Obummer wrote:

Not Just Ruining Things At The Elite Level wrote:

They are an absolute cancer on the sport.

And it's not just at the elite level. I'm seeing so many club guys in my area leap in from the 1:17:xx / 1:16xx to the 1:12:xx / 1:11:xx in Half which pretty much fits in with my own scientific experimentation that they're worth ~ 25 secs a mile at around that pace.

Total joke.

25 seconds per mile? Leave this site and never post again bc your opinion is worthless if you really believe that

I don't believe it - I KNOW it. Because unlike the majority of you chumps on this site arguing the toss without any actual knowledge one way or the other I devised a way of testing exactly how much the Carbon Plate was worth by tempoing 10k, on the same course, at the same heart rate on multiple occasions with and without the plate using as close a control shoe as I could get.

I've done the work and I can look at the results I know for myself exactly what they're worth. Not interested in actual "worthless opinion" from some random b"llshitter on here...

If it were the shoes why did they also need.

a perfect course,

Wind blocking pacers following the perfect pace car?

Jumping on a trampoline is extremely exhausting. Same with a pogo stick.

It seems to me Laws of physic would obliterate the notion that it could be the shoes.

I can't do the proof but something about the cost of attenuating the spring to get the ground forces offsets the propulsion.

It isn't the shoes.

Not Just Ruining Things At The Elite Level wrote:

They are an absolute cancer on the sport.

And it's not just at the elite level. I'm seeing so many club guys in my area leap in from the 1:17:xx / 1:16xx to the 1:12:xx / 1:11:xx in Half which pretty much fits in with my own scientific experimentation that they're worth ~ 25 secs a mile at around that pace.

Total joke.

you honestly believe that guys went from 1:16 to 1:12 because they bought new shoes? that's a bigger improvement in 13 miles than any pro marathoner gets in 26 miles.

the shoes are fast, probably the fastest marathon shoes ever made. but they aren't giving people several minutes in a half marathon. they might give hobby joggers bigger benefits if they were really inefficient, but if you're talking about sub-3hr marathoners, you might get a minute or two from the shoe. some people respond better to the shoe, but some respond less.

I am among among (few?) non-responders...they feel really comfy and save my legs

(I am able to recover faster after hard effort)...but they DO NOT make me any faster

Bekele ran his 2:03:03 in Zoom Streaks, then declined for 3 years, then came back to run 2:01:41 in Vaporflys. Nearly every unsponsored athlete wears them and even Adidas athletes have been caught wearing them with the logo painted over. If that's not an endorsement then I don't know what is.

Over a year ago I was contacted to wear test a prototype of the shoes that Kipchoge wore I put them on and immediately said "These are illegal". I ran a few workouts in them and the stopped because It was an obvious advantage. the shoes Kipchoge wore should never be released to the public. They make the Next% feel like a normal shoes. If he actually pushed during that run I predict he would be well into the low 1:58:XX

Not Just Ruining Things At The Elite Level wrote:

Obummer wrote:

25 seconds per mile? Leave this site and never post again bc your opinion is worthless if you really believe that

I don't believe it - I KNOW it. Because unlike the majority of you chumps on this site arguing the toss without any actual knowledge one way or the other I devised a way of testing exactly how much the Carbon Plate was worth by tempoing 10k, on the same course, at the same heart rate on multiple occasions with and without the plate using as close a control shoe as I could get.

I've done the work and I can look at the results I know for myself exactly what they're worth. Not interested in actual "worthless opinion" from some random b"llshitter on here...

You're claiming 10% improvement in pace over a half marathon. If that were true then every pro wearing these should be performing 10% better than they were before. Do you see that happening? NOPE.

A scientific study with only 1 subject. Think about why that's wrong, Einstein. The only worthless opinion here is your own. Maybe stick to coaching.

I ran sub3 in Adidas. A truly superhuman feat I will tell my grandchildren one day.

I remember during baseballs HR chase everyone said it was because of better nutrition and the weight training that baseball players do now. Later on we found out that they were all taking massive does of test. HGH.

Not Just Ruining Things At The Elite Level wrote:

Obummer wrote:

25 seconds per mile? Leave this site and never post again bc your opinion is worthless if you really believe that

I don't believe it - I KNOW it. Because unlike the majority of you chumps on this site arguing the toss without any actual knowledge one way or the other I devised a way of testing exactly how much the Carbon Plate was worth by tempoing 10k, on the same course, at the same heart rate on multiple occasions with and without the plate using as close a control shoe as I could get.

I've done the work and I can look at the results I know for myself exactly what they're worth. Not interested in actual "worthless opinion" from some random b"llshitter on here...

So this guy KNOWS it's worth 25 seconds per mile. He is certain of it. Stinson just ran 25 seconds per mile than Kipchoge. He also didn't have the elaborate windbreak nor anyone handing him drinks from a motorcycle. Well, he had a group of guys, so maybe the fantastic windbreak was only worth less than a minute more, and the drinks thing probably several more seconds. So if the multi-million $ INEOS situation gave him about a minute compared to what a competitor in a race had to do, Stinson actually ran a more impressive performance than Kipchoge. The much-hyped World Record holder at 25 seconds per mile slower wouldn't break 2:11 in a conventional race.

Also, you must consider the insole disaster race one of the most impressive performances of all time. He was certainly much less than 25 seconds per mile slower than any of his races since. What are the greatest runs ever? Kimetto's record and Bekele's near miss? Neither of those had the 25 second advantage, so wouldn't they have been well under 2:00 if they'd given the same effort on the same course on the same day with the shoes? How fast would Adola have been with them? Far ahead of Kipchoge, that's for sure, easily under Kimetto's record, wouldn't he? That would have been sub-2 as well, right?

There may be others here that wonder the same, but I can't figure out how you tested the new Kipchoge shoe. Not one pair has ever been sold. There may be pairs in existence in sizes other than his since they may have been made for someone in Beaverton to try. But maybe you just meant you tested the most Next%. Or maybe even just the 4%. So how many seconds per mile would you guess the Kipchoge Special is worth? 30? We can only speculate since none of has ever touched one, or have you and if so how did you get ahold of it? If you have a guy running a 2:12 marathon equivalent (or 2:14 in a race race without perfect conditions) in a 30 second per mile booster shoe, that's not very impressive is it? I mean, it's ahead of Steph Bruce but far from the GOATB

It most definitely is the shoes!

proudest hobbyjogger wrote:

I ran sub3 in Adidas. A truly superhuman feat I will tell my grandchildren one day.

Whoa! You ran for almost 3 hours straight!

Ross Tucker is a stupid F wrote:

Not drugs either. People are so naïve believing that drugs can make you faster.

Exactly.

Look at all the people forced to take drugs in hospitals and then they die, because of the drugs.

People get vaccinated, then get sick. And then they blame the smart people who didn't get vaccinated!

Almost all of the drug and shoe accusations are based on illogical thinking, racism, and/or prejudice.

It is probably mostly doping. Not to say they don’t train hard, but the juice helps a lot.

You're claiming garbage. 5 mins off 76/77 mins is 6.5%. And I didn't claim that as a universal (and specifically at that pace, not elite. Actually that was my point). I said I've seen club guys make that drop, which I have in the past couple of years, using these shoes. And I'm looking at multiple guys' Strava data with years worth of comparable mileage behind them, making these types of gains.

As I said that stacks up with what I see using as close as possible to the same shoe I could find, with the same weight, with or without the plates. I'm not claiming it to be some bulletproof scientific paper piece but it's good enough for me personally to have something concrete. And it's a hell of a lot more worthwhile than some completely unenlightened no-one just shooting the breeze on here.

But yeah you just keep sprouting uninformed nonsense back and forth as if you've actually sat up and tried to gain any understanding / make any sort of personal sense of it whatsoever.

Tally ho!

Shocked you can actually do math given your odd hatred of Nike fueled beliefs. Sounds like you're pretty jealous your rivals are dusting you this year and seeking a scapegoat excuse to justify it.

Calling someone with a different perspective "unenlightened" is a rather close minded tactic. Now that you mention it, you're also a no-one citing unsubstantiated claims, but its everyone else who is "shooting the breeze."

If you want an actual scientific study check out Jared Ward (I get the sense you have not heard of him). Or, you can just keep trying to find excuses for why you can't keep up with your local road race warriors. That would be the easier option.

I truly feel bad for the students you coach. And even worse for your children. Be better for their sake.

If you noticed, Kipchoge was wearing half-tights while all of the pacers were wearing shorts.

Something tells me that nike has some special sauce tights

Prove me wrong people, prove me wrong