No way Aussie Jessica Hull takes 34.61 off her best 5000 time in Berlin?

LoneStarXC wrote:

whitedoesnotmeanclean wrote:

Clean? NOP?

This. It seems like a lot of posters are ignoring the fact that Hull is in the NOP. My “Sleazy Sal’s special sauce” post was deleted, BTW.

That's because she's coached by Pete Julian, not Salazar. I don't think Pete Julian is "sleazy". There's so many other variables to take into considering for Hull running 15:00 than baseless doping accusations.

Dr No wrote:

Hull is a tough little kangaroo! 15 flat is def equiv to a 402 or so . 15:34 , who knows what was going on in that race . She does well with fast paces to . She can hurt !

I ran a sub 3:50 1500m and never got under 15:30 5k. I could run 1:51 and split in the 48’s though.

Equivalents are lame. Why don’t you distance guys get that?!

ncrecuvuer wrote:

LoneStarXC wrote:

This. It seems like a lot of posters are ignoring the fact that Hull is in the NOP. My “Sleazy Sal’s special sauce” post was deleted, BTW.

That's because she's coached by Pete Julian, not Salazar. I don't think Pete Julian is "sleazy". There's so many other variables to take into considering for Hull running 15:00 than baseless doping accusations.

Not really “baseless”, considering that Sleazy Sal and Julian work together closely. That whole group is suspect.

Okay, maybe not completely baseless, but she ran 4:02 before she even joined the group.

4:02 per the IAAF scoring tables gives a score of 1189.

15:00 per the IAAF scoring tables gives a score of 1163.

Her 4:02 is equivalent to a 14:46.

So she runs a relatively weaker performance than what she did BEFORE she even joined the group and a few posters just have to bring up doping. Classic LR.

LoneStarXC wrote:

ncrecuvuer wrote:

That's because she's coached by Pete Julian, not Salazar. I don't think Pete Julian is "sleazy". There's so many other variables to take into considering for Hull running 15:00 than baseless doping accusations.

Not really “baseless”, considering that Sleazy Sal and Julian work together closely. That whole group is suspect.

https://www.propublica.org/article/former-team-members-accuse-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rules

Key word here is accuse buddy. Thank god you don’t run the American legal system.

It's outlandish. Houlihan could've taken that from the gun.

There's also girls like Marielle hall, rowbury(15:05 this year). I think hull would just be in the mix with them. In college her kick is very good but against the us women. She's right in the pack as of now. I haven't seen anything to think otherwise just yet.

I do hope she gets to sifans level in the next two years or so.

NC Runner 34 wrote:

Plus, it's not like Houlihan won with ease, she was doubling back and still look pretty fairly tired down the home stretch.

No. Houlihan won easily. She ran with the lead pack until the top of the home stretch. She then ran away from everyone. Her lead increased until the finish. She does not look "pretty fairly" tired either on the home stretch, or walking around afterwards.

NC Runner 34 wrote:

I don't think it would have be outlandish to say Hull could have contended for the win.

After watching the race, it is clear that Hull could not have contended for the win and that it is outlandish to say so.

YMMV wrote:

And Johnson tops all three of them in the 1500.

Johnson does not top Debues-Stafford. It's not even close. Debues-Stafford has run under 4:00, and has finished in the top three in 4 DL races this year. Of course, Debues-Stafford is 2 1/2 years older, and a pro.

However, Debues-Stafford was running as fast when she was Johnson's age. She ran a 4:03.55 a few weeks before she turned 22. Johnson ran a 4:03.72 a few months after she turned 21.

Not so fast, Slick wrote:

YMMV wrote:

And Johnson tops all three of them in the 1500.

Johnson does not top Debues-Stafford. It's not even close. Debues-Stafford has run under 4:00, and has finished in the top three in 4 DL races this year. Of course, Debues-Stafford is 2 1/2 years older, and a pro.

However, Debues-Stafford was running as fast when she was Johnson's age. She ran a 4:03.55 a few weeks before she turned 22. Johnson ran a 4:03.72 a few months after she turned 21.

The three being discussed were Hull, Purrier and Schweizer,all of whom are at the same stage in their career.

YMMV wrote:

The three being discussed were Hull, Purrier and Schweizer,all of whom are at the same stage in their career.

Duh! That makes sense. What was I thinking?

LoneStarXC wrote:

ncrecuvuer wrote:

That's because she's coached by Pete Julian, not Salazar. I don't think Pete Julian is "sleazy". There's so many other variables to take into considering for Hull running 15:00 than baseless doping accusations.

Not really “baseless”, considering that Sleazy Sal and Julian work together closely. That whole group is suspect.

https://www.propublica.org/article/former-team-members-accuse-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rules

You need to stop spamming that old article that nothing came of and get over it. It’s getting old. Every thread.

NOP is dirty.

This was like when Ritz join there for 6 weeks and broke the American Record in the 5k all of a sudden, while training for the marathon.

They are still around because Nike is appealing in the courts. It’s hard to beat 40 billion dollar corporation. Look at Trump, he’s still the President, doesn’t mean he should be, or that our legal system is not fool proof.

YMMV wrote:

Not so fast, Slick wrote:

Johnson does not top Debues-Stafford. It's not even close. Debues-Stafford has run under 4:00, and has finished in the top three in 4 DL races this year. Of course, Debues-Stafford is 2 1/2 years older, and a pro.

However, Debues-Stafford was running as fast when she was Johnson's age. She ran a 4:03.55 a few weeks before she turned 22. Johnson ran a 4:03.72 a few months after she turned 21.

The three being discussed were Hull, Purrier and Schweizer,all of whom are at the same stage in their career.

Aw, let the Canuck have his fun. How often do they get to gloat about an athlete?

Ukhfagyty wrote:

Aw, let the Canuck have his fun. How often do they get to gloat about an athlete?

Hah! I'm not Canadian. I'm just one of the annoying "please stop saying that your favorite runner is in shape to set the AR next year just because she ran 4:02.xx in a fast meet" guys.

PS As far as Canadians gloating, I forgot to point out that Debues-Stafford didn't get really good until she left the country. For Scotland! That has to hurt.

Your hurt level crashed and burned around 4K that is why you never came close to anything decent in the 5 and the fact you ran it not so often either maybe .

I like point tables ( Equiv )

ncrecuvuer wrote:

Okay, maybe not completely baseless, but she ran 4:02 before she even joined the group.

4:02 per the IAAF scoring tables gives a score of 1189.

15:00 per the IAAF scoring tables gives a score of 1163.

Her 4:02 is equivalent to a 14:46.

So she runs a relatively weaker performance than what she did BEFORE she even joined the group and a few posters just have to bring up doping. Classic LR.

Inappropriate use of the scoring tables. 15 5k is much more impressive than a 4:02.

macdaddy wrote:

ncrecuvuer wrote:

Okay, maybe not completely baseless, but she ran 4:02 before she even joined the group.

4:02 per the IAAF scoring tables gives a score of 1189.

15:00 per the IAAF scoring tables gives a score of 1163.

Her 4:02 is equivalent to a 14:46.

So she runs a relatively weaker performance than what she did BEFORE she even joined the group and a few posters just have to bring up doping. Classic LR.

Inappropriate use of the scoring tables. 15 5k is much more impressive than a 4:02.

Hmm.. did some research - 15 was broken about 25 times this year and 4:02 about 20 times. More comparable than I thought - must be my slowness over 5k vs 1500m that leads my thinking..

LoneStarXC wrote:

ncrecuvuer wrote:

That's because she's coached by Pete Julian, not Salazar. I don't think Pete Julian is "sleazy". There's so many other variables to take into considering for Hull running 15:00 than baseless doping accusations.

Not really “baseless”, considering that Sleazy Sal and Julian work together closely. That whole group is suspect.

https://www.propublica.org/article/former-team-members-accuse-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rules

If I had a dime for every time someone posted this 4-year-old article...

You'd think if they weren't baseless accusations, USADA would have done something about it.

westsouthrunner wrote:

Aussiestatman wrote:

Fourth in 15.00.32, current NCAA champ over 3000. Ranked 25 at 1500. Put it into perspective: only 12 women ran faster last year, would have won the US champs [indeed, no American woman has run that quick this year], would have finished 16th in the London DL [1.3 behind Salpeter], and only needs to find another 13 sec to hold the Australian record [recorded by Benita Johnson at the same meet in 2002].

She would have 0 percent chance at winning a US title. theres like 5 or 6 us women who can and have run in that 15:00-05 range. This is not including Shelby Houlihan the sub 2, sub 4, and sub 14:40 woman.

Tonight this gets personal. Aussie v American to get thru to a final. Shelby v Hull.