Easy miles pace

I pick the username "distanceguy" because I'm not logged in and I just try to come up with a name that isnt used. And I am in high school so the 2 mile in track is the longest event (at least in my state and the state tournament) so in track the 2 mile is my main one. And by no means I'm not a natural born mid distance runner, the longer the distance the better I could do. But my whole thing in this thread is to see if my "long" runs (8-12 is probably pretty normal for most high schoolers I will assume) are hurting me because I go to fast, and to hear opinions on if i slow down on them if it will help me drop more time and feel a lot better in the hard workouts if I did.

To add a little more, I have a lot more stamina than speed so I think that the 2 mile (at least in high school) is more of a distance event than it is speed. So that's why I focus on it the most

My 3200 pr from this past outdoor season was a 10:07 and leading up to it I did a bulk of my mileage (max 60 mpw) at 8:00-8:30 pace. Cross-country skiers in Scandinavia have some of the best aerobic systems in the world, and most of their offseason training consists of running through the woods at 10-12 minutes per mile. In my opinion, it's about time on your feet and not pace.

To me the basic aerobic run pace is about 1 minute /km slower than your 10 k pace or even your LT pace.This is the moderate pace run.

But there s another very important pace for easy aerobic run and is that 1minute and 30 seconds slower or even more

up to 2 minutes /km than 10 k pace. And this is Easy pace run.

No way training everyday I can do all my aerobic runs to the moderate pace.

I need to put some easy pace run to recover well.

I like going by HR. My max is ~ 185 and I typically run my recovery runs at 120-125 and my normal "easy" runs usually at about 125-130. Rarely above 135. Keep all the good stuff for workouts, with "long tempos" in the 145-150, "MP" workouts in the 150-160 range, tempo intervals around 160-165.

I am much slower so you won't relate but in general:

115-120 when fit is 9:00-9:15

120-125 when fit is 8:30-9:00

125-130 approx. 8:00-8:30

I almost never run "easy" faster than 8 min/mi. My PR in the marathon is 2:56 which is upper 150s, low 160s (6:45ish).

I find HR most usable for easy and recovery runs and guidance to avoid overtraining. I also find it very helpful at or around marathon pace to gauge where you are in your training.

59 sec 400m speed is not that bad. Some successful pros at the 10k-marathon come to mind. I am guessing you haven't worked on speed? Some great things to do: 2-3 times a week run 10x120m after your easy run with enough rest between to run them all fast and relaxed. After workouts, add a few light explosive exercises like squat jumps, box jumps, split leg jumps, bounding, high knees (don't overdo these exercises though). You will get faster, especially if you work on it for a year or two. The good news is you have a great aerobic base. Adding some weight lifting may help, but that isn't always specific to an explosive movement.

Lesson I took too long to learn and under performed as a result; as Frank Shorter said, take your easy days very easy and make your hard days very hard. Shorter used to do a lot of running at conversational pace - sometimes 7:00 miles. But on his hard days he ran intervals to the limit, if you put a gun to his head after the last rep and said run another rep or else .... his answer would have to be "OK shoot me 'cos I can't!"

Details of all this in his autobiography.

In the 1970s I was at a very good running University, most of our runs were 6:00 or quicker. Got incredibly fit but was unable to translate that fitness into race performances, got frustrated and ran harder, got injured and spent more time on the physio's couch or surgeons operating table than I did the track or the road. Easy days should be just that, don't bother about time/pace just run with little or no effort.

So what I'm understanding is, that I am probably over training and underperforming (that 9:45 was indoor so it was recently) and I could do a lot better and run a lot faster if I had not been doing my easy runs so fast? Because I would really like to run in the low 9:30s so another question, is that time pretty good for being pretty much drained (I do my easy runs fast as you can see and my coach has us do a lot of hard workouts) and if I changed it all up and did my easy runs a lot easier will a low 9:30 be a realistic time outdoor?

Distanceguy wrote:

So what I'm understanding is, that I am probably over training and underperforming (that 9:45 was indoor so it was recently) and I could do a lot better and run a lot faster if I had not been doing my easy runs so fast? Because I would really like to run in the low 9:30s so another question, is that time pretty good for being pretty much drained (I do my easy runs fast as you can see and my coach has us do a lot of hard workouts) and if I changed it all up and did my easy runs a lot easier will a low 9:30 be a realistic time outdoor?

Perhaps. Another runner that comes to mind it comes to easy days easy is Dieter Baumann. First European under 13 minutes for 5000m. His easy days were 7:00 minute pace or slower. Craig Mottram was very similar too.

Distanceguy wrote:

So what I'm understanding is, that I am probably over training and underperforming (that 9:45 was indoor so it was recently) and I could do a lot better and run a lot faster if I had not been doing my easy runs so fast? Because I would really like to run in the low 9:30s so another question, is that time pretty good for being pretty much drained (I do my easy runs fast as you can see and my coach has us do a lot of hard workouts) and if I changed it all up and did my easy runs a lot easier will a low 9:30 be a realistic time outdoor?

Correct. Two things are happening when you run at about 70% of max heart rate. 1) Your work is totally aerobic so that your muscles are able to maximize the development of the mitochondria that make it possible to carry oxygen to the muscles. Anaerobic work develops different systems. That's fine if your races are all anaerobic (sprints and up to about 1KM), but a two mile or 5KM or longer has a big aerobic component that needs addressing. 2) When you run at a slow pace and stay totally aerobic, you don't damage your muscles (with lactic acid, etc.) and therefore you don't have anything to recover from. It's the anaerobic work that leaves you beat up and sore and in need of recovery. Theoretically, if you keep your pace slow enough, you can run nearly infinite miles without breaking down. In theory :-)

Another point that I haven't seen mentioned here; endurance (aerobic conditioning) takes a long time to develop. Many months (and really, years). Speed (anaerobic conditioning) comes much quicker. Weeks. So putting in the longest base of very easy running that you can fit into your year will pay huge dividends.

Read Arthur Lydiard's work. He tended to write with a bit of hyperbole but his theories have been proven correct. Also Google HADD Training Theory. That'll get you deep into the weeds of training for distance runners and while similar to Lydiard's work, it is not at all hyperbolic.

Bottom line, as several people have said, run your easy runs very easy so you can run your hard runs very hard.

Serious question: what would you say are the differences between running at a) 60% of max HR (very difficult to do), b) 65% of max HR (typical recovery pace), c) 70% of max HR (normal easy pace), and d) 75% of max HR (not so "easy" anymore, though nowhere near lactate threshold or even aerobic threshold)?

What are the benefits of one over the other? Is it as simple as: "faster = more adaption but more danger since less recovery"?

I know people will disagree with me here but this is very individualized depending on form, muscle fiber type, etc...

I have had runners that really need to run slower for their easy runs and I have had others that absolutely thrive off of faster regular paced runs and are completely fresh for their workouts.

One shoe does not fit all.