How many times do we hear of athletes who return positive tests getting off on a technicality, because of a slip-up by the testers or the labs? Incompetence seems to go with the job.
How many times do we hear of athletes who return positive tests getting off on a technicality, because of a slip-up by the testers or the labs? Incompetence seems to go with the job.
I give up, how many? I can only remember a couple (over many, many years).
Armstronglivs wrote:
How many times do we hear of athletes who return positive tests getting off on a technicality, because of a slip-up by the testers or the labs? Incompetence seems to go with the job.
too lazy to type in password wrote:
Coevett wrote:
If the IAAF agree with Kiprop and decide that he was clean and that his positive test was due to the Kenyan anti-doping testers tampering with his sample (and that appears to be his only hope), then the IAAF ought to suspend Kenya.
Don't know where that would leave Kiprop though.
Were the anti-doping testers Kenyan?
Some shady Brit (Paul Scott) accompanied by a dubious Kenyan (Simon Karugu). Both were disowned by ADAK so Kenya wasn’t responsible for that shambolic process.
https://twitter.com/ade_adedoyin/status/992400891998240770?s=21https://twitter.com/michkatami/status/992374174705487872?s=21Looking more and more like a fix, if you ask me.
Lest we forget, we’ve known this was awfully fishy for months.
Huh, had missed that these two clowns were not from ADAK. It's all the more suprising that they gave advance notice and asked for a bribe !
What about the 22/11 and 29/11 tests, who did them ?
In reality, he already has experienced a 1+year ban. So no, he does not get off with no ban. He will effectively be receiving the 2 year ban.
To say he got off with no ban, if he win this trial, is not true. We have some real ineffectual people on this board.
El Keniano wrote:
too lazy to type in password wrote:
Were the anti-doping testers Kenyan?
Some shady Brit (Paul Scott) accompanied by a dubious Kenyan (Simon Karugu). Both were disowned by ADAK so Kenya wasn’t responsible for that shambolic process.
https://twitter.com/ade_adedoyin/status/992400891998240770?s=21https://twitter.com/michkatami/status/992374174705487872?s=21Looking more and more like a fix, if you ask me.
Legal question: If Kiprop is found not guilty of using EPO due to some unscrupulous behavior by the testers;fixing the sample as you say (i.e. corruption) can he sue the pants off of the AIU or what agency is responsible for for defamation of character, any hardship put on him, any projected loss of $$$, etc?
I'm really changing my preconceived guilty verdict. I've wavered so much on this. I'm sure there is loads of information regarding the case that we know nothing about.
Why would you change your opinion based off of the arguments of only one party?
This is not a balanced news article, it is just a repeat of one side's talking points, with no supporting evidence or even a cursory vetting of these claims.
facts please wrote:
I give up, how many? I can only remember a couple (over many, many years).
Armstronglivs wrote:
How many times do we hear of athletes who return positive tests getting off on a technicality, because of a slip-up by the testers or the labs? Incompetence seems to go with the job.
In 2003,Carl Lewis admitted that he failed 3 drug tests at the US Olympic Trials, which under the rules at that time, should have kept him off the US Olympic Team. But instead he was given a pass. Lewis is reported to have said: “There were hundreds of people getting off. Everyone was treated the same.” Apparently he was right, too, because between 1988 and 2000, allegedly 114 positive US drug tests were covered up.
We have the recent WADA report about the Sochi Olympics saying among other things that more than 1,400 positive drug-test results were destroyed, some at an unaccredited lab, in order to keep them from WADA; bribes were accepted by high-level IAAF officials to ignore positive doping tests; and the whole thing was orchestrated by the Russian government.
Similar charges have been levelled against Kenya stemming in part from the claim of one Kenyan athlete saying the Kenyan governing body had given him a two-year suspension because he was unable to pay the 500,000 Kenyan shillings bribe (about $5,000) required to cover up a failed drug test.
On April 21, 2016, WADA suspended the accreditation of Beijing’s National Anti-Doping laboratory, weeks after launching a probe into allegations of doping in Chinese swimming. The probe had been launched because a whistleblower from within Chinese swimming told the British newspaper The Times that the lab had covered up 5 positive tests ahead of China’s Olympic trials.
Armstronglivs wrote:
facts please wrote:
I give up, how many? I can only remember a couple (over many, many years).
In 2003,Carl Lewis admitted that he failed 3 drug tests at the US Olympic Trials, which under the rules at that time, should have kept him off the US Olympic Team. But instead he was given a pass. Lewis is reported to have said: “There were hundreds of people getting off. Everyone was treated the same.” Apparently he was right, too, because between 1988 and 2000, allegedly 114 positive US drug tests were covered up.
We have the recent WADA report about the Sochi Olympics saying among other things that more than 1,400 positive drug-test results were destroyed, some at an unaccredited lab, in order to keep them from WADA; bribes were accepted by high-level IAAF officials to ignore positive doping tests; and the whole thing was orchestrated by the Russian government.
Similar charges have been levelled against Kenya stemming in part from the claim of one Kenyan athlete saying the Kenyan governing body had given him a two-year suspension because he was unable to pay the 500,000 Kenyan shillings bribe (about $5,000) required to cover up a failed drug test.
On April 21, 2016, WADA suspended the accreditation of Beijing’s National Anti-Doping laboratory, weeks after launching a probe into allegations of doping in Chinese swimming. The probe had been launched because a whistleblower from within Chinese swimming told the British newspaper The Times that the lab had covered up 5 positive tests ahead of China’s Olympic trials.
OK. Seems to me that you are pointing to widespread official corruption of the antidoping process. Which I agree is a problem. I think it is a different problem than what you posted in your original claim of athletes getting off because of a technicality and a slip-up by the lab or testers. Those seem like two different issues to me, but maybe they are the same to you. The only slip-up I can think of off the top of my head is the handling of the Lagat sample, but I am sure there are others.
If the IAAF agree with Kiprop and decide that he was clean and that his positive test was due to the Kenyan anti-doping testers tampering with his sample (and that appears to be his only hope), then the IAAF ought to suspend Kenya.
Don't know where that would leave Kiprop though.
IAAF and WADA ought to suspend themselves for all this incompetence.
doot doot wrote:
NativeSon wrote:
This case is very confusing. It is a puzzle and no one knows where the truth lies.
Here’s the truth:
1. Kiprop is a doper.
And/Or
2. Kenya— AK and/or whoever conducts drug testing— are too corrupt to be trusted to administer reliable drug testing.
Choose one or both.
Doot,
I am Kenyan and I am on record here as saying that should (or in the event that) Asbel Kiprop test positive from EPO, he should be BANNED FOR LIFE!
I believe I said that here when all this came into being.
Now, that said, it is important to understand the situation (or the story) and get to know exactly what transpired. This story is murky at best and could be career ending at worst. It would also taint our country and no one is bigger than the land. No one!
In the wake of all that has happened since, I've had second thoughts about the whole thing. I'd say it's more of a pause than a change of heart/mind. That is why I say that it is important to understand the facts no matter what one thinks of our country.
facts please wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
In 2003,Carl Lewis admitted that he failed 3 drug tests at the US Olympic Trials, which under the rules at that time, should have kept him off the US Olympic Team. But instead he was given a pass. Lewis is reported to have said: “There were hundreds of people getting off. Everyone was treated the same.” Apparently he was right, too, because between 1988 and 2000, allegedly 114 positive US drug tests were covered up.
We have the recent WADA report about the Sochi Olympics saying among other things that more than 1,400 positive drug-test results were destroyed, some at an unaccredited lab, in order to keep them from WADA; bribes were accepted by high-level IAAF officials to ignore positive doping tests; and the whole thing was orchestrated by the Russian government.
Similar charges have been levelled against Kenya stemming in part from the claim of one Kenyan athlete saying the Kenyan governing body had given him a two-year suspension because he was unable to pay the 500,000 Kenyan shillings bribe (about $5,000) required to cover up a failed drug test.
On April 21, 2016, WADA suspended the accreditation of Beijing’s National Anti-Doping laboratory, weeks after launching a probe into allegations of doping in Chinese swimming. The probe had been launched because a whistleblower from within Chinese swimming told the British newspaper The Times that the lab had covered up 5 positive tests ahead of China’s Olympic trials.
OK. Seems to me that you are pointing to widespread official corruption of the antidoping process. Which I agree is a problem. I think it is a different problem than what you posted in your original claim of athletes getting off because of a technicality and a slip-up by the lab or testers. Those seem like two different issues to me, but maybe they are the same to you. The only slip-up I can think of off the top of my head is the handling of the Lagat sample, but I am sure there are others.
In a range of sports I've quite often seen it argued that there was "contamination" of the samples and because the labs weren't able to establish that this couldn't have happened the athlete concerned has sometimes escaped a proven violation. It was disappointing to see. This has been part of the larger picture of a widespread unreliability on the part of those designated the role of enforcement.
asdfghjkl wrote:
Seems odd for someone if he knew he was guilty to be so adamant that he didn't do anything wrong and stand by his story.
Umm...ever hear of Lance Armstrong, OJ Simpson...
Can you cite those cases? I would like to look at them. Once a sample has tested positive it should not be on the lab to establish that something "couldn't have happened." A positive test shifts the burden to the athlete and means he/she has to establish the alleged facts to the degree of comfortable satisfaction. It's an affirmative defense.
Armstronglivs wrote:
In a range of sports I've quite often seen it argued that there was "contamination" of the samples and because the labs weren't able to establish that this couldn't have happened the athlete concerned has sometimes escaped a proven violation. It was disappointing to see. This has been part of the larger picture of a widespread unreliability on the part of those designated the role of enforcement.
Every doper has a defense and elaborate story. I'd say about 2% actually fess up when they test positive.
I don't know what the exact truth is. All I know is, unfortunately, I don't ever believe the accused in doping scandals. Because 99% of the time they are lying.
strykerd wrote:
Joplas wrote:
Look you imbecile. Also your statement that doping doesn't make you faster is clearly and demonstrably wrong. EPO stimulates the production of red blood cells, which improves delivery of oxygen from the lungs to the working muscles, which in turn allows you to run (or bike or swim or whatever) faster.
That poster is correct. You are dumb for thinking that out of season testing is a "waste".
Agreed... He is indeed a verifiable imbecile. He is foolishly confusing steroids and EPO. Steroids aid recovery. EPO, on the other hands, DOES help in competition... i.e., it makes you faster.
Jeta wrote:
IAAF and WADA ought to suspend themselves for all this incompetence.
IAAF, for sure, they should have been rebuilt from scratch after their huge bribery scandal instead of having a certain VP simply replace the president. Same old, same old.
Plus the stupid AIU needs to disappear.
But why WADA? Because they continue to let the IAAF get away with everything?
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