Suzy finishes in Zurich...fast

Just the facts Walter.

I am almost positive....ALMOST.....

Peter Tegen is West German, not East German - the ones associated with the 70's and 80's steroid laced females.

Suzy Fan,

First of all, it seems like you think I've criticized Ms. Hamilton in some way, which I haven't. I've criticised those people who a.) rank competing in a sport as being akin to, say, performing surgery, fighting fires, or running a company, and b.) think they have a right to a certain level of performance just because they paid for it, regardless of the athlete's fitness. Case (a) is untrue, because sports are, by definition, GAMES (as a previous poster mentioned). Things done for oneself, not for others.

I'm saying, if both spectators and participants remembered that definition performances might improve.

If Suzy felt pressure that might have affected her races in the past, I think that it was because first of all, she herself has made running her career, which means it's paying for her food, etc., and losing a race takes on more meaning than a game should, second, a bunch of spectators have put pressure on her as some sort of soldier representing the U.S. on a 400m oval battlefield. Both of which attitudes, I feel, are completely twisted.

The sport is the race or game, not the people watching it. Professional athletes are professionals because they take the money that people are willing to pay to watch them. If someone doesn't put in an honest effort, that's already against the rules of the sport. If we don't like what how an athlete performs, sure, we don't have to pay to attend their next race. But we don't have the right to ask for our money back. From the admission fee standpoint, people are paying to see a race, not to see so-and-so win the race.

At the end of the day you have to give her big props, she broke 4:00 again this season, and raced well. That is what everyone on the board has been screaming for, now it is done, and what can we say? Season isn't over, and maybe she will run faster yet!

Let's see now, non championship year...drug testing less reliable in private meets vs. Worlds/Olympics...Suzy runs under 4 again, faster than Jacobs, who has been blasted on this board as being guilty of drugs by public opinion...

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

Yeah, yeah, Suzy has not tested positive. Neither has Jacobs, though, remember?

Yes, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. Want something a little more concrete? Try this: Suzy is a competitive head-case, so how did she run so well in this huge meet against Szabo/great competition?

Easy. Almost everybody else in the field was coming off either the Commonwealth or European Championships. (These meets tend to be tiring, shall we say?)

Our little heroine thought she had an advantage being rested when few others were. Thus the out of the ordinary (for her) sense of confidence that translated into a great race.

When the going gets tough...

Unfortunately the level of stupidity on this message board seems to be rising every day. Suzy has been at 4flat or better five times-Regina-1, Both have COMPETED on 3 Olympic Teams-Olympic Finals? 1 to 1, Suzy has always competed in Europe well, too many of u idiots think that what happens at the US Championships is it for a US runner. If this country was at the level as Kenya's distance runners it would be that way. The fact is-each of the last 6 seasons Suzy has run faster than Regina. Regina never competes well in Europe-she had one good race in Europe this year, save that one she really has had nooooo good appearances, Suzy has been very consistently fast. SUZY DOES NOT TRAIN FOR THE US CHAMPIONSHIPS-SHE TRAINS TO COMPETE AGAINST THE BEST IN THE WORLD AND THAT ONLY HAPPENS IN EUROPE. What do u think Bob Kennedy is prouder of? The fact that he went several years without being beaten by an American or running under 13min 2 times? I can guarantee u he would have given up every US title for even 1 sub 13min 5k. The US Championships do not mean squat to anyone that has a real desire to compete at a high level for the US on the world scale because u do not try to peak for the US championships. I can guarantee that every Golden League meet is more prestigious to an American than the US Championships and every great US runner trains for the Golden League circuit-not the crappy-mean nothing US Champs.

Oh yeah and in response to the last guest idiot that posted. There is a difference between being very race sharp and a little fatigued and being rusty. I would take being a little tired and very race sharp over having 1 race in the last 6 wks. And how many of the competitors in that field have a PR under 4 min???? Szabo ran alot of races recently and she looked pretty damn sharp, so did Goreleva. There was very few in that field that have the ability to run under 4 min in absolute great condition and being very rested. There is no way in hell anyone else would have run under 4min besides possibly Goreleva. Do u know anything at all about running?

Answer the Question NoDmit, what is Suzy's record vs Regina straight up? That's all I ask....

On US Soil, Suzy has one victory over Regina indoors in the Millrose mile a few years back, and one victory over Regina in the Prefontaine 1500 a few years back, those are the only 2 victories on a track in the US that she has over her. Not one time have they ever ran a race head to head in the US has the pace been pushed from the gun-never once-every one has been sit and kick-that is Regina's style. Suzy is undefeated against Regina in Europe in Golden League and Gran Prix races, she has never lost to her there-which just happens to be the place that people go when they want to run fast. FYI Suzy does not consider Regina her biggest rival or the person she trains to compete hard with and beat. She has had a beat on Masterkova previously and Szabo for the last 5 years because they are the best in the world. She trains to compete with them. She trains through US meets and peaks in Europe where her chief rivals lie. She honestly does get a kick out of all the hype people make out of this so called big rivalry they have. She thinks its funny, she is not interested in what Regina does, she is interested in what the best in the world do and competing with them. Regina has never showed herself to be at that level(both WC silvers were run in sit and kick races where anyoneeeeee could have equaled that time) and Suzy constantly has said when she proves that she is one of the best then maybe she will start to worry about tune up meets(US Champs) at that point in time.

No limit you are also omitting from the equation that Regina has 2 World championship medals. Suzy has 0. Isn't it really about getting medals in major championships?

You say Suzy has never lost to Regina in Europe. But the real question is how many times have they raced in Europe? Regina for reasons that have been discussed on this board rarely races in Europe. It's the same old, same old every year at the US championships. Regina cleans Suzy's clock. Winning US titles is Regina's focus.

And they have been ranked #1 in the US both 5 times at 1500m. But Regina has had way more successaat 800 and 5k than Suzy. Throw in the championship medals. No question her career is greater than Suzy's.

Limithis-Suzy 800 1:58.10-has a Gran Prix meet victory in it. Regina 800 1:58.01-huge difference there isn't there-Suzy has cracked the American Indoor record in the 800m, before Teter broke that this year. Suzy 1000m-2:33 AR at the time, ran last in '94, Regina 2:31AR ran only 2 or 3 years ago I believe. Suzy has run one semi-serious 5k in earllly 2000 15:06 at Mt Sac in '00 just because she wanted to jump a race after being in Malibu all winter. She has never run one in any kind of shape with any kind of field. She ran 3000m 8:46 in the Mad City a few years ago totally by herself at the beginning of May '00. Never run it in any kind of serious shape either. WC Silver medals-both slowwwww races-look at the winning times-everyone in each of those finals had fun faster previously. Point is take out the junior high US Champs victories and what do u have? Nothing for Regina. Suzy trainsss to run in Europe like most goooood runners do, not some JV US meet. The reason she(Regina) runs veryyyy rarely in Europe is because she can't run off a hard pace-never once has run a good race off one, anddddd she is dirty as hell and mighttttt get busted over there.

Both have good arguments. Each runner has some shaky stuff in their careers. Look at two rival Portuguese from the 80's -Mamede and Lopes. Mamede ran the faster times but crumbled in the big meets(were talking about World Champs and Olympics, not Zurich, Brussels, Oslo.) Lopes has Olympic Silver, Olympic Gold, and some World Cross titles as well. Who had the better career? That one's pretty easy.

Favor and Jacobs, well head to head (and if that isn't what its all about I don't know what is. Suzy isn't letting Jacobs beat her all the time-she just can't outkick her on the slower pace.) But the icing on the cake is Jacobs 2 medals-Favor 0. How many times has Suzy even made the finals of the championship meets? I know she's missed making many of them. Yet with Jacobs the story probably isn't much better except for the two medals. I guess I would say Favor might potentially be the better runner but Jacobs has the better accomplishments. If both careers ended today Jacobs would rank higher in most people's eyes I would venture to say.

Not to obssess over this (but I share that trait with mosst runners) but this debate brings up a good point on whose the better runner, one who wins the tactical race because of better kicking ability, or one who has the greater number of faster times. Peter Rono and Ron Delany, as well as Alberto Cova were guys who on the day in a slow race came up with the win because they could haul ass the last lap and were SMART enough racers to get themselves in position to win. Others trained themselves to run faster than anyone else before but didn't kick good enough to win that gold medal. I heard something that Paul Tergat said to Toledo's coach when he had the good fortune to have dinner with him once when he was visiting one of his runners. He was asked what was more impressive-a Gold medal or a world record and Tergat said the world record because a gold medal is won by whoever is best that particular day and a world record happens under a condition where God says this is how fast humans can run and someone goes out and runs faster.

I like the point NOLIMIT makes suggesting that Jacobs doesn't do well in fast races and rarely races in Europe because of that (and other reasons). If she can't hang on in a sub-4:00 race and Suzy can then you have to say Suzy has gotten to a higher level of running ability, but Jacobs maybe a better racer under some conditions. Especially US championships.

Once again NoDimt has not answered a simple question? What is Suzy'a record vs Jacobs that's all I asked. You did not have to defend, make excuses, talk different peaks, ect...just answer the question..scoreboard as they say. Talk numbers, a know Bonds hit's his 600th, Wilt scores 100, Randy Johnson is 18-3, ect...Can you just talk numbers and not babble.

That said it's pretty good that they seem to both be running pretty well seem to be on course to meet in a few more races in Eurpoe this year maybe Berlin, Brussels, GP Final,, Wolrd Cup? oops I forgot Regina Beat Suzy at nationals ( which Suzy just trains through but sure looked pised as hell after the race too ) and won't get to run.....

And since you so in the know in with the Suz what was with the dropping out adn instead of stepping of the track going wide and slaming into Teter? Not to many of us the the board question her talent, but upstaris the evevator seems to not make it to the top floor at times.

The major excuse for Suzy in this comparison seems to be that she "trains through" the nationals. First of all, this is not always the case; it surely was not in the year that she very nearly beat Szabo in Oregon. Beyond that, REGINA trained through the nationals this year, too, attempting to get ready for Rome and Monte Carlo and the upcoming Brussels and Berlin.

Frankly, it's hard to believe there is even any dispute as to which of the two women's overall records is better. Regina has two outdoor 1500-meter World Championship silver medals, an indoor gold in the mile and a bronze in the 3000. Suzy has no such medals. The fellow who said Regina's races came in "slow" races in times anybody could run must surely be joking. "Anybody," including Suzy, did NOT run them.

Regina has won 11 outdoor 1500 U.S. titles, has done a couple of historic doubles at the nationals, and a couple of years ago was beating the best Americans at both the 800 and the 5000. It's a far more dominant record than Ms Favor Hamilton's. It takes the most twisted and distorted thinking to conclude otherwise.

IF you yourself knew anything about running, you'd know there is a HUGE difference between one shot races, which can sharpen you, and CHAMPIONSHIP EVENTS which consist of strength-sapping ROUNDS. Any knowledgable betting person would have put money on a fresh Suzy over a Commonwealth or European runner in that race.

Obviously you are one of the mindless Suzy fanatics who would mortgage the farm on someone's talent and "potential" (especially talent shown on a skin calendar, maybe?) rather than on what is real and has been consistently proven.

If you're not a relative of Suzy's, you must have chronic forearm cramps from all the masturbating.

Perhaps you should check the poll on the front page. Regina has had the better career by a landslide 73%.

And you like to point out that Regina's time's didn't come in Europe. Well look at the Trackandfieldnews world 1500m rankings. Regina has better rankings than Suzy.

Regina has been ranked 3 times: #2, #3, and #4, but not in the last couple years. Suzy has been ranked 3 times #5, #7 (2000), #6 (2001).

BTW, winning the US nationals is very important for everyone. It's a key ingredient in sponsorship contracts, i.e., money incentives, plus the product visability that makes for more and better contracts in the future.

You can get most of the numbers you wanted from No Limit at

Look under athletes bios from the sidebar. Perhaps No Limit should take a look at them, too.

oops-

Message should have said "at the USATF website at USATF.org."

for Regina's and Suzy's numbers.