Unreal: Germany's Philipp Pflieger debuted in Berlin at 2:12:50 - Olympic federation says he can't go to the Olympics

It's not just about everyone's dream. It's about how you structure the sport and the affect that has on its athletes. Will German runners decide to train more because they need to run much better than the Olympic A standard to go to a Games or do they decide that no matter how hard they train the Olympic A standard is as good as they can expect to run, that the German standard is well beyond them, so why bother.

If the US had used the German approach in 1964 in the 10,000 meters Billy Mills would probably not have been in Tokyo. Very rarely, people run well beyond expectations in major competitions but they can't do that if they aren't there.

Hi Trisha!

Atomic Party Chair wrote:

It's frustrating to see this is still happening. My husband is from Germany and a similar thing happened to him back in 2000. Ran the Olympic standard, but not the German standard. Despite people at the national level speaking on his behalf (and even offering to pay to send him to the Olympics out of their own pockets!), they wouldn't send him...nor did they send a full men's team.

The IAAF sets the Olympic standards. National associations should just adhere to those. A 2:12:50 debut is very strong and would have qualified for most U.S. Olympic teams, in addition to beating the Olympic standard by three or four minutes. No one can talk about the expletive-deleted-ification of sports by allowing a 2:12:50 guy into the Olympics.

Vhfggvhghhhgjgjh wrote:

If the:

UK can produce athletes like Farah

US can produce distance runners like Lagat

Canada can produce distance runners like Mo Ahmed

Why can't Germany produce athletes like that?

You mean like their guy who debuted in 2:09 last year, has the indoor 5000m world-leading time this year and is going for the NR in Frankfurt this year?

Vhfggvhghhhgjgjh wrote:

Pussification wrote:

So this guy finished almost 9 minutes behind the winner and failed to make the standard on the fastest course available. What's the big deal? I think it's absurd that you guys are obsessed with white 2:12 Berlin guys - let it go.

Agreed

If the:

UK can produce athletes like Farah

US can produce distance runners like Lagat

Canada can produce distance runners like Mo Ahmed

Why can't Germany produce athletes like that?

It's easy to run 2:12 for the marathon. Pretty much every poster on LR (man or woman) has run faster than that in the last 12 months.

Ok, I sense a troll here, but I'll bite anyway. Well, maybe all Germany has to do is get themselves some Africans just like the three examples you gave here. That'll solve the problem!

Completely against the Olympic spirit

An Olympic marathon is run in hot weather - a 212 guy who excels in the heat actually could be in the mix

Yeah - importing Africans instead is better? It's crazy.

If it was the idiots at UKA they would make him run it twice

Pringles wrote:If it is that important, he should have trained harder or squeezed out more on the race day.

He didn't even know what the national standard would be until about two weeks ago. Pretty hard to gear your training towards a qualifying time you don't know.

They actually were very close to doing that for Schembera over 800m.

After running the national A-Standard in one race they nearly didn't send him because he hadn't run the B-standard in a different, seperate race (or something along those lines) - the DLV and DOSB certainly know how to create a lot of drama.

Vhfggvhghhhgjgjh wrote:

If the:

UK can produce athletes like Farah

US can produce distance runners like Lagat

Canada can produce distance runners like Mo Ahmed

Why can't Germany produce athletes like that?

It's easy to run 2:12 for the marathon. Pretty much every poster on LR (man or woman) has run faster than that in the last 12 months.

i see what you did there

Agip, HRE and jjjjj are in my opinion completely right. They know what they are talking about. I think this kind of thinking from the german federation has huge impact on younger athletes who start now their carreers and see that it is almost impossible to go to the olympics.

And then we ask ourselves why athletes go into the grey zone or dope.

Checkout also the first german female runner Anna Hahner. Has the qualification time from the international standard but not the german.

I disagree. The Olympic marathon isn't the best marathon race of the year. The top Africans often aim for the Marathon Majors where the big money is. The race can often throw up a surprise. He has to be sub 2h 10 to be in the mix but he could do that. Maybe as someone under the radar he didn't have the advantage of training at altitude which might bring about some of the improvement needed. If they don't send him, they won't know.

Fuss over nothing. A lot of countries have additional standards for representation which are over and above those set by the event organisers. For reasons already noted. No news there. Some countries have limited financial resources allocated to some sports, and expect a return on their investment. In other cases the governing body in that country want to use showcase events like Olympic Games to advertise their sport. New Zealand requires that athletes meet the international standard AND have a realistic expectation of a top 16 finish. Placing 37th in the 50km walk does nothing to promote race walking in that country. In fact it makes the sport even less attractive. Those paying for the athletes have the right to decide if the athlete is worthy of representing the country, not the athlete. End of story. Don't like it, go and live in a country that is happy to accept lower standards.

Vhfggvhghhhgjgjh wrote:

It's easy to run 2:12 for the marathon. Pretty much every poster on LR (man or woman) has run faster than that in the last 12 months.

Right. My buddy Mike could do it too. 3:11, 2:11 - what's the difference, if one is bold enough?

So if I don't like something in a country the only alternative is to migrate?

Hahaha.

Where are you from North Korea?

Do you really think that serious race walkers will be more discouraged from serious training and racing if someone from their country finishes 37th at the Olympics than by seeing people attain the A standard yet not get to go? How do you see that happening because I can't imagine it and neither of us are talking only about race walkers. And even if you're correct, finishing in the top 15 is significantly different than finishing top eight.

If finances are really the issue for a national federation they should select some of those top 8 to 15 types and pay their way then enter other qualified athletes and let them pay their own ways if they want to. If you're one of the top 3 marathon runners with the A standard in a country like Germany, New Zealand, Canada, etc., you've got a contract with a shoe company who can afford to pay your way to the Games.

germany just wants to win the european battle for having the highest standards, if non of their athletes hits their standard, they just blame the individuals that they didn't try hard enough

it's ridiculous. it's basically saying "if we can't be the best let's have at least the highest standards" and "if we don't send a guy, no one can beat our guy"

I think Steve Spence had about a 2:12 PR going into the 1991 World Champs in Tokyo and he won the bronze in a strong field. I recall some people scoffing back then that we were even sending a team.

The guy would be a million to one longshot but people do blow up in the marathon in adverse conditions. If he ran a great race and the pack went out too fast he'd have a chance for a top 10. Wouldn't that be a step in the right direction to establishing world class marathon runners again?

HRE is dead right.

If the sport in the UK was run by athletes and ex-athletes, then the main job of the governing body would be to send the fullest possible team to every international event. We all know the inspiration that flows out through the clubs, friends and supporters sport when somebody makes the team.

If you're lucky enough to have a dozen qualifiers in an event, you can afford to debate criteria - young and talented, old and reliable, too flaky to trust etc. But if have zero or one candidates for an event, and you choose not to send them, it's a kick in the teeth for every club athlete who is spending decades chasing that same dream.