3:00/300

I am doing a race in Ohio where you get 1 second subtracted from your 2 mile time for each pound bench pressed above your body weight. They use a chart to determin your max. Women are calculated on 50% of body weight. I think it will be won by someone benching 100 pounds over thier body weight and running a 10:30-2 mile.

That would give them an adjusted time of about 8:50.

catman,

Don't know how you can say I don't know anything about lifting, because I've been doing it for 20 years. In college my track and cross country team was trained in the weight room by a strength and conditioning coach who knew what he was talking about, so I've had some good direction.

Body make up plays a part in the total amount you are able to lift, but 300 pounds is not that big of a deal, unless you are 5 feet tall and 90 pounds.

The world record holder in the bench press was at the Arnold classic last year, and he benched over 700 pounds. That takes some God-given talent and hard work. Getting up to 300 pounds doesn't - well, it takes some work, but not hard work.

Your example of how hard it is to be a weight lifter actually proves that it is not as hard. At the very most a serious weight lifter puts in 90 minutes a day three days a week, and they see huge gains based on that. Wow! 90 minutes three times a week - man that's hard! Some weight lifters do some aerobic workouts, but jogging at 10 minutes per mile is hardly tough.

Most of their workout (and the workout that lifters consider tough) is the anaerobic lifting part. That is about as wimpy as it comes.

As far as my own bench press goes, I have made a point of not giving out PRs, and that will go for bench pressing too. Why? Because you can't confirm them, and I could be lying through my teeth. I am not as fast as the very elite runners on this site, but faster than most. My bench pressing isn't something I do to find a max. It is just something I do for overall fitness.

Bottom line is that the schedule I gave out for improving ones bench press will work, and if that person has not really been lifting before, he will see dramatic improvements.

If you want to get ripped abs, big biceps and a strong bench press, spend 20 minutes a day 4 days a week with the fourth day (because it comes right after a hard lifting day) being a very easy high rep day. Strength and definition will occur in a matter of weeks - sometimes even more than you thought possible.

Running for performance is harder than lifting for performance. Doesn't make me a cry baby to have that opinion. I've done both, and the running is WAY harder, takes longer to see the fruits of your labor and takes more time per day to accomplish goals.

Then, go back to working out and another week and try again, but this time start the weight where you left off last time.

The advice quoted above pretty much tells me that you have never lifted. I separated the muscles in both my shoulders doing something like you suggested. Don't start out at the heaviest you can lift--unless you want to mess yourself up and not be able to do a thing like I did for 6 months because everything you do aggravates the injury.

catman,

Eventually I will tire of responding to you, but for now I will continue to show you the errors of your ways.

The advice you quoted me one was only for when attempting to find out your max. You can safely do this once a week, and if the first time you were looking for your max you started at 150 pounds and ended at 185, then the next week, you can start at 185 and then give a higher weight a try if 185 is done easily.

catman, I've been lifting weights longer than you are old. I've lifted them for a variety of reasons - added endurance with lower reps as a distance runner, a summer of trying to bulk up just to see how big I could get (when I was in high school - couldn't care less about that now), extra added strength in my former life as a gymnast.

For some reason it appears you are mad that I've stated that weight lifting is easy (which it is). It is fine for us to disagree, but really, you shouldn't get mad about it. I've done both, and running is WAY harder. You see catman, it could be that I have the body and muscle mass more of a weight lifter than a runner which is why the running has been more difficult than the weight lifting. We are all different. Just because I say it is easier doesn't necessarily mean it will be easier for everyone.

Regardless of that though, my weight lifting advice for the person wanting to up his bench press max is sound. He should know when he is attempting too much so that he doesn't rip a muscle. Injuries can happen in anything you do - that is the risk.

sub 3 with a 300-lb max bench would be easy! I don't know what all of the controversy is about.

I just ran a sub-2:50 marathon and maxed out a few weeks ago (playing around with my football-playing nephew) at 265. I haven't benched seriously since I started running 1-1/2 years ago. I could be back above 300-lb within a month.

Willy is right...I am much more proud of my marathon than I ever was of my weightlifting. Nearly every regular at a gym can bench over 300-lb. However, I was the only sub-3 marathoner in my town of 300,000 last year.

Pumpkin,

You are right on dude. Glad to see that someone else with sense posted here on this subject.

Hey Mr Chest, you probably need those big arms to keep in shape for all that masturbating that you do. I just wish you enjoyed it enough to leave us alone. It's really not something to brag about, you know.

You are not right on. When you lifted 300 you may have weighed more. When training to get under 2:50 you lost weight thus the muscle needed to press 300 pounds. Do both on the same day, it is not as easy as you guys on here think. I could bench 300 also when I weighed 220. Now I run much, much faster and bench 260. I always seem to be about 80-100 pounds over my body weight.

My advice on weight training on this thread (even though the thread was how to do both) said nothing about being able to bench 300 and run a sub 3 hour marathon. My advice was only about increasing your bench press max.

I agree that running a sub 3 hour marathon and benching 300 at the same time is difficult but not out of the realm of possibility, and personally I think that combination is easier than runing a 2:30 marathon.

If you ever attend an Arnold Pump and Run, you will see tons of good lean-looking runners who bench press their own weight 30 times. Can a 150 pound guy who benches his weight 30 times bench 300 pounds? Not sure. Can a 150-pound guy who benches his own weight 30 times and runs an 18 minute 5K train himself to bench 300 pounds and run a sub 3-hour marathon? Certainly. Are there lots of these kinds of people out there who are withing striking distance of that combo and could do it if they focused on it as a goal? Yes.

Go here to see last year's Arnold pump and run results in Columbus, OH:

http://www.runohio.com/results/02-24-02ARNOLD_PUMP_RUN_5K.html

I'm 5' 9.5". When I ran the 2:49:49 on 12/15/02 in Dallas, I was 172# with ~15% bodyfat...which is about 146# lean body mass. I could have benched 265# on the day of the marathon. I weighed about 162# when I benched 310# in high-school wrestling 10-years ago...and had about the same lean body mass as I have now. I haven't lost any significant upper body muscle, just tone. I still look like a wrestler rather than a marathoner.

You're right that strength & fitness don't go hand in hand! Although, for me the marathon took a lot of effort whereas weightlifting is just natural.

Yes, some people have the right body type for lifting. When I am strong enough I am to slow, when I am fast enough I am to weak. I'll bet there are several people that can make the combination of 3:00/300. I don't think 300 pound bench press would be easy if you weigh less then 175. I agree wrestlers often have the right body type to bench press better.

I have been to the Arnold Pump and run and most of the competitors are not great runners, they are more or less lifters. It is a great event that leans towards the lifter. I do it each year and will continue because it gives me somthing to focus on over the winter months and do some cross training while watching my weight!!

Pumper,

I agree with you about the pump and run participants. I think last year's winner ran only 17:55, but he benched his weight 30 times and that was the difference. Still, there are always some guys who run in the 16s, so it's not all just iron pumping.

This couldn't be more wrong and it shows you neither lift nor have been around people who do:

"Getting big muscles is very very easy. You just have to work out - in as little as 8 weeks, you can have the ripped abs and biceps you see on fitness commercials - this is so true - muscle develops very quickly in response to exercise - unless you are very overweight and so those muscles are buried under fat, you can look like Mr. Muscle very quickly. There is nothing easier than picking up a few weights and lifting them. This is why we should not respect weight lifters even a little bit."

Getting muscular requires, first and foremost, the genetics to make gains. Paul Tergat could pound away all day int he gym and not much would happen. Second, there is a physiology to lifting every bit as precise as running, takes more hours per day if you have the genetics to make gains from said work, and requires an extremely tricky proposition - how to eat enough to build muscle mass but not have any of it turn to fat. A 295 monster like former NCAA wrestling champ Brock Lesnar at 6% body fat has to eat as many calories to maintain that 295 pounds as a 295 pound fat ass. Real lifters are far more bizarre and mentally disordered than runners are. Most real lifters do 30 minutes of cardio a day and would do more if ample studies haven't shown that more than that reduces your muscle gains significantly.

Willy-

I've always thought you were intelligent and then you go and post crap like this. As an ex D1 Thrower, I can assure you that I puked, passed out, blacked out, etc. with the same intensity and frequency of my distance bretheren. Ask a guy who blacks out with 700 lbs. on his back how easy lifting is? As for somebody who benches 150 lbs. being able to bench 300 lbs. that is absurd. During my prime I benched 470 lbs. and I can assure that I have absolutely no chance of ever breaking 3 hours for the Marathon- why would you believe that a decent distance runner can easily bench 300 lbs (you sound like an exception)?

Furthermore, pertaining to time- a 300 Lb. bencher is more equivalent to a 4 hour marathoner- both of these accomplishments (provided the person was the right body type) would require about 90 minutes of exercise per week. Which brings me to this point- don't mock serious strength athletes because of how easy you were able to attain a 300 lb. bench. I can assure that in the mind of any serious strength athlete, a 300 lb. bench is about as hard for us as a 8:00 minute mile is for a serious distance runner. Here's the point- it is every bit as hard and taxing on the body to be a serious strength athlete as it is to be a serious runner.

Ex Thrower,

You and I are more in agreement than you seem to think.

1) I agree that perhaps I have the body type more suited to weight lifting than running - I've already said so, so I AGREE with you there that genetics plays a role.

2) I also agree with you that for a serious weight lifter a 300 lb. bench press is equivalent to about an 8 minute mile for us runners. That's exactly my point - it is not that big a deal. A thin runner will have to work hard to be able to build up to 300 lbs., but it can be done.

3) You are in a different category altogether by benching 470 pounds - that is more than 50% again more than 300 pounds. That takes more work and some genetics to go with it. I would agree that at your peak there would be no way you could run a 3 hour marathon.

Here's where we disagree though:

1) I have seen people start weight lifting and begin at about a 120 pound max and then two years later benching more than 300 pounds.

2) I had a friend in college who was a linebacker for the football team. He weighed about 240 and could bench 400 pounds. After college he decided to become a runner and stop the serious weight lifting. A few years ago he ran the Toledo Glass City Marathon in 2:38, he still lifts, he weighs about 160 now but I'm pretty sure he could bench 300 if he wanted to, and if not, it wouldn't take him long to get there, and I'm sure that he could still break 3 hours in the marathon if he did.

It is fine for us to disagree. I find that weight lifting is easy when compared to running. That's just my own personal experience.

Do we agree on this- the further on the spectrum that you get away from either one, the harder the other one is to accomplish. A 450 lb. bencher could never run a 3 hour marathon and a 2:20 marathoner would have a hell of a time benching 300 lbs.

As for your friend, I would be willing to bet some serious money that he could not bench 300 lbs. right now. Call him up and ask him, he is going to tell you no. And one more point that contradicts what I said earlier, a 300 lb. bench is not a ho-hum accomplishment- it is fairly significant.

As for why I disagreed with you originally- 1) I dreaded many of my workouts, 2) puking and complete exhaustion were common occurences, 3) Gains are not easy- you do hit plateaus- Basically, I took exception to your original post. As for which is harder, serious strength training or serious distance running- we will never know the answer to this because no athlete is equipped to do both work-outs. Therefore, we'll both just defend until the end of time that the workouts each one of us did was harder. I'll make this statement- in our respective primes, I'm sure both of us we're a little crazy.

Ex Thrower,

You are a good guy. This is how the banter is supposed to go.

I do agree that the better you get in each sport the harder it is to do well in the other. I would find it difficult to believe a 450 bench press guy could run a sub 3 hour marathon, but I won't go so far as to say it would be impossible. I'd have to see it with my own eyes to beleive it though.

I would say in our primes we were both a little crazy. I still am!

Off to watch my tackle football Buckeyes beat Miami!

Go Bucks!