"Depletion runs" from the Chris Solinsky interview. This might be the worst idea I've ever heard.

There has never been a study that has correlated doing a long run with marathon success either but that doesn't stop everyone from doing a long run.

pewow wrote:

There has never been a study that has correlated doing a long run with marathon success either but that doesn't stop everyone from doing a long run.

Actually there has been such a study.

These "depletion runs" seem like a good way to simulate hitting the wall, building mental toughness, and teach your body to convert fat to fuel. that being said, I don't think they should be run more than once or twice in a marathon cycle.

I believe this topic was just covered this past weekend at the Gatorade Sports Science Institute Expo; The physiological process/merit is discussed in the following review written by Keith Baar

https://secure.footprint.net/gatorade/prd/gssiweb/pdf/115_Baar_SSE.pdf

Sounds like if depletion runs are done in moderation, they could be quite beneficial although it does seem like anyone experimenting with this type of training would be walking the fine line between adaptation and overtraining

More information can be found by checking out @LouiseMBurke on twitter as she presented on this topic this past weekend

June Squib wrote:

That is science but a super small sample size.

There must be more out there?

poor solinsky wrote:

A completely stupid strategy that will never be used by elite marathoners. Rather, fuel as best as you can and run as fast as you can.

Renato Canova uses it... does he coach any elite marathoners? I can't remember...

itworksdude wrote:

I'm surprised people still doubt it works when there have been studies confirming it's efficacy.

Sounds like you're in the dark about it. Here's some help:

http://www.runvictoriamarathon.com/pdf/Stellingwerf-MarathonCaseStudy.pdf

That's not science... it only looks like science.

As a previous poster said, Canova has used this training with world record holders and other very fast marathoners. In his words it teaches the body to burn fat for fuel.

Unounounoun wrote:

As a previous poster said, Canova has used this training with world record holders and other very fast marathoners. In his words it teaches the body to burn fat for fuel.

Did Canova actually measure fat metabolism changes? Or does the idea just sound like it works? There's a difference. Either way, you'd be much better off ingesting carbs. Even if you can teach your body to burn fat, it will still be inferior to just eating some carbs.

I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.

I didn't say it was "science." I said it was a "study."Time for remedial "reading and comprehension."

Coach Cookie wrote:

itworksdude wrote:

I'm surprised people still doubt it works when there have been studies confirming it's efficacy.

Sounds like you're in the dark about it. Here's some help:

http://www.runvictoriamarathon.com/pdf/Stellingwerf-MarathonCaseStudy.pdf

That's not science... it only looks like science.

itworksdude wrote:

I didn't say it was "science." I said it was a "study."

You did say "confirming it's efficacy," which is wrong. It may have supported it, but hardly confirmed it. You used a case study, which is mostly useless beyond hypothesis formation (i.e., speculation).

The other studies posted here are much better than what you posted. But it seems that others here have done a better lit review and showed there is science to support the hypothesis. I just wanted to see real data, not anecdote and it has been supplied. I don't care enough about the topic to do the lit review myself, but I hate poor science so I had to point it out.

^ Thank you.

Just running a lot will accomplish the same purpose. A "depletion" run is bound to happen at the end of a difficult/big training period.

Yet another example of a talented athlete making a stupid decision. It's not complicated folks.

I use this method on my last long run before a marathon to start my carb depletion phase. It seemed to work pretty well, I felt like death from Sun-Wed but I think I managed to load up my muscles effectively from Thu to Sun race day and then didn't have to rely on any gels during the race.

I felt full of energy until about the last km when my quad muscles started to give way. Another 1km and I would have struggled to finish.

isjsj wrote:

Unounounoun wrote:

As a previous poster said, Canova has used this training with world record holders and other very fast marathoners. In his words it teaches the body to burn fat for fuel.

Did Canova actually measure fat metabolism changes? Or does the idea just sound like it works? There's a difference. Either way, you'd be much better off ingesting carbs. Even if you can teach your body to burn fat, it will still be inferior to just eating some carbs.

If you wait a minute I will look up coach Canova´s telephone number for you. I´m sure he will appreciate your superior knowledge.

ksodi wrote:

kmaclam wrote:

Train your body to use alternate fuel sources as you WILL run out of glycogen before the end of a marathon, so why wouldn't you train in that state??? Nope, I'll just wait for mile 22 of the most impt. race of the year & see how my body responds!

No, you will NOT run out of glycogen if you just refuel along the way. Carbs are also better than fat as far as performance goes. The whole thing is a non issue. Just eat something halfway through.

Only ultrarunners and hobbyjoggers eat during runs.

bob d. wrote:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20452283

Nothing, absolutely NOTHING in that high school experiment.

Just look at this crap:

"Eight female and six male untrained (!!!!!!!!!), healthy participants"

"FAST training had no effect on RER or plasma glucose, lactate and FFA concentrations during subsequent submaximal exercise."

Dang, no effect.

"the extent of these adaptations in skeletal muscle differ slightly between men and women."

Oh, there were some slight variation in the differences between the two groups of 3 (!!!!!) women and the two groups of 4 (!!!!!) men. Umm ever heard about statistics?

Conclusion: Letsrun has as many retards at runners world.

adsfads wrote:

June Squib wrote:

There must be more out there?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21051570

Yes, there is more crap out there.

That study restrains the athletes from doing their best training. If you eat and drink properly you can train harder. But they simply let the sane and healthy group of athletes follow the same training schedule as the starved athletes.

And now please tell me, dimwits, when did Renato deprive his athletes from that morning tea full of sugar so that they should "burn more fat"?

Those of you who defend starvation please grab a tinfoil hat when you leave.